Babies and goatsmilk

oberhaslikid · #1 10/14/07, 08:00 AM

My grand daughter is not growing well.She was taken to the Dr for a check up and is way below here limits on everything.She was 5 13 at birth and lost to 5 4 On breast milk. My DIL stop the breast milk it being all water content.Put her on Soy with Rice.The baby is 6 months and 11 pounds, she seems newborn to me.The baby throws up some every feeding,which is 6 oz. Iam trying to convince DIL to use Goats milk before the next Dr visit.To see if we can put some weight on her.
Does anyone use goatsmilk on their infant?I have some I canned and we mixed half and half last night and she seems content to me.

SHELBY · #2 10/14/07, 08:11 AM

When my youngest was born she was born with a type of acid reflux, the acids in her stomach had to be regulated with a bicarbonate and also something else,
They did blood work and changed her medication around for 2 months until they found the right strength, and she started keeping her milk down.
She was only one the medication until the tests would come back with everything being normal, which was around 4-6 months,

This may be something your DIL might need to look into.

LMonty · #3 10/14/07, 08:40 AM

Goat milk is great in infants except that it is low in folic acid, and in infants under a year can cause whats referred to as goat milk anemia because of that. If she supplements with an infant vitamin containing folic acid or cereal fortified with it that type of anemia may be avoided. I'd discuss that with the pediatrican if goats milk is an option. He/she may not understand how much better goats milk is than soy, so I might print out some articles on it to take with me, if I was doing it. HTH

delphinium · #4 10/14/07, 10:55 AM

Human breast milk is not just all water content, It is the perfect food for the human infant.
As it wasn't "modern" to nurse your child back in the 50's I was not breast fed. Consequently, I was allergic to just about everything, cows milk, infant formulas, etc. So, I was raised on goats milk and rice milk. Did okay, I hope your granddaughter does as well and begins to thrive. It can be a worry.

Horse Fork Farm · #5 10/14/07, 11:16 AM

I know how worrisome that is for you and family, having been thru it myself. If its not too late I think she should still breast feed a couple times a day just for the antibodies from the milk and feed feed feed as much other food as she wants to eat. You don't mention anything about solids but I would probably add solids. Maybe the Doc will let her have some Pediasure or some type of calorie supplement?? My preemie was having trouble gaining and the thing that turned him around weight wise was letting him eat from the table instead of actual baby food. If it tastes good she'll eat more! Mashed potatoes, mac and cheese, ground up chicken breast with a tiny bit of chicken gravy, I know I will get blasted for recommending this but I don't care because our Doctor was well pleased with my results and the bottom line is getting that baby to thrive so she doesn't get sick!! Babies NEED fat for proper brain growth for the first 2 years and those extra calories will make her grow. Matt has been eating from table since he was 3-4 months old. By 6 months he ate everything that didn't eat him first! Most things can be ground up enuf for her to try them. I hope she takes off soon for y'all! Kat

oberhaslikid · #6 10/14/07, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heartstrings

I know how worrisome that is for you and family, having been thru it myself. If its not too late I think she should still breast feed a couple times a day just for the antibodies from the milk and feed feed feed as much other food as she wants to eat. You don't mention anything about solids but I would probably add solids. Maybe the Doc will let her have some Pediasure or some type of calorie supplement?? My preemie was having trouble gaining and the thing that turned him around weight wise was letting him eat from the table instead of actual baby food. If it tastes good she'll eat more! Mashed potatoes, mac and cheese, ground up chicken breast with a tiny bit of chicken gravy, I know I will get blasted for recommending this but I don't care because our Doctor was well pleased with my results and the bottom line is getting that baby to thrive so she doesn't get sick!! Babies NEED fat for proper brain growth for the first 2 years and those extra calories will make her grow. Matt has been eating from table since he was 3-4 months old. By 6 months he ate everything that didn't eat him first! Most things can be ground up enuf for her to try them. I hope she takes off soon for y'all! Kat

She is getting baby food and the only table food so far has been mashed potatoes.Rice baby cereal and or Oatmeal.They are gonna start Physical Therapy on her.We have one month to show a change in her weight.I feel helpless except to supply the milk.She is going to start a liquid vitamin on her.I watched her this morning and put her on her stomach on a blanket on the floor and she doesnt want to use her arms to push her self up or her legs to roll over.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #7 10/14/07, 11:49 AM

Maybe the Doc will let her have some
.................................................. ..........

We have one month to show a change in her weight.
.................................................. ..........

Don't any of you have some problems with giving others authority over your children like this?

It's a train wreck from the beginning when a doctor advises to take a child off breast milk, sure supplement it, but take her off it, what nonsense. Run now and find another doctor, this advice alone tells me they are quacks. If you don't get weight on this obviously ill child in a month they will do what?

I am going to ask Quiverfull (LeeAnn) to come and post to this thread, mom of soon to be 11 and a midwife...I will let you hear her story from her... Vicki

Alice In TX/MO · #8 10/14/07, 11:56 AM

I would not give an infant soy products.

southerngurl · #9 10/14/07, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose

I would not give an infant soy products.

Me niether.

I will leave the in depth information to someone more educated, but suffice to say the best thing for this babies would, almost certainly, be to put her back on breast milk. No solid food, and certainly no soy.

How long was the baby breastfed? Some babies will lose a little weight after they are born a take longer to start growing and adding weight, but soy is just going to cause more problems, not help. Mama needs to be eating well too.

Soy is just asking for allergies and hormonal problems.

thaiblue12 · #10 10/14/07, 12:24 PM

My daughter had this problem as well. They said it was an "immature gut". They claimed I was 41 weeks pregnant and over due. So I was induced. She was born weighing 7 pounds 8 oz. but they realized after that I was 38 weeks pregnant.

Well they can't put her back in for another 2 weeks now could they.
Anyway she projectile vomited, to the point that I did not like driving alone with her. I liked someone in the back with her but that was not always possible.
I was told to switch her to soy formula, which I did with breast milk as well. She gained weight was 8.8 at 2 weeks old, but continued to vomit till 4 months old. She does not suffer from any allergies.
I would get a second opinion before I start using goats milk and all these different formulas. That can only upset her stomach more.
Also I hate to be an alarmist but have her checked for pyloricstenosis (sp?). My friend's baby had that and he did not gain weight. But you could at times see the formula trying to make it ways down his intestines but then just come back up.
Good Luck, hope she gets better soon.

mamajohnson · #11 10/14/07, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

Maybe the Doc will let her have some
.................................................. ..........

We have one month to show a change in her weight.
.................................................. ..........

Don't any of you have some problems with giving others authority over your children like this?

It's a train wreck from the beginning when a doctor advises to take a child off breast milk, sure supplement it, but take her off it, what nonsense. Run now and find another doctor, this advice alone tells me they are quacks. If you don't get weight on this obviously ill child in a month they will do what?

I am going to ask Quiverfull (LeeAnn) to come and post to this thread, mom of soon to be 11 and a midwife...I will let you hear her story from her... Vicki

Bravo Vicki!

My sentiments exactly. I dont have as many children as LeeAnn, but I also spent many years midwifing (only 500 births under my belt) and raising kids (only 5 of my own) so, here is my 2 cents worth,
First: infant formula is NASTY stuff. It is full of junk. the breast was made for the human baby, not soymilk or whatever that other stuff is! My brother was a product of the 60's and that "not in" to breastfeed. The poor child nearly died! he had ulcers all in his system, his mouth, his throat, his stomach. He survived on soy milk (nasty - stinky stuff) and only barely.
When my #3 son was 16 mo. I stopped breastfeeding (granted he was on foods by then) and tried giving him formula or store bought milk to supplement what I didnt have time to give him from my breast(as (a very busy midwife practice was the problem) He vomited all of the milk products. violently. When a mennonite family gave me a gallon of fresh raw milk I took it to him and he began to thrive. As a result they had a good customer for a long time! My conclusion was this: processed milk was poison, and canned formula was worse (I now have goats and we all drink raw milk - all children do well)
Second: your feeding a 6 mo old all sorts of food? really their system is not mature enough for that. They need to be breast fed on demand, and just start introducing foods at over 6 months of age. If you cannot breast feed for some reason try to find the most natural wholesome (ok, read 'unprocessed and nonchemical laden') product you can.
Personal opinion here--when a baby has a mouth full of teeth then you can start thinking about table food. I dont even think store bought baby food is good for them!!! Also, this doc is probably stressing your daughter out, which can affect the let down of her milk.
There is much more that can be said, but I will abstain for now.

Hope I didnt offend, but I have very strong opinions on these issues.

Qvrfullmidwife · #12 10/14/07, 04:29 PM

--my "credentials"--I am a midwife, have been practising for 20 years and a mother of 10 going on 11, several of which did NOT grow well on breastmilk alone, some of which I weaned to formula, the latest 2 were raised on the breast AND goats milk.

1)is the baby actually throwing up, ie vomiting or spitting up? There is a huge difference in regards to how worrisome it is. Vomitting to the point of where it doesnt just dribble out when they burp but instead comes out with force, even shooting out 6 inches or more is a sign of pyloric stenosis. This is serious and often requires surgery. Consistently spitting up more than a little bit of dribble with each burp can be caused by reflux, basically the same thing that adults have when they have heartburn. This is painful for the baby but not lifethreatening. Meds can be used (reglan being teh main med) or more frequent, small feedings.

2)breastmilk LOOKS more watery but is the perfect food for human babies. Even teh formula companies admit that breastmilk is best and that what they have is but a poor imitation--every year they reformulate it as they learn more and more what nature/God/mom puts in that breastmilk that they dont even know of.

3)if your DIL is going to supplement with something ANYWAY, then yes, goatmilk is a good option. BUT I woudl still 100% recommend as another poster on here has done, that she continue with SOME breastmilk so that the baby can continue to get the antibodies so desperately needed. Plus they have discovered that the health benefits to breastfeeding are not limited to teh amt of milk that the baby gets, much of teh benefit is due from time at the breast itself. There are lactation consultants who can help her set this up, but one thing that I have done is to use a supplemental nursing system (or 'lact-aid'). Using this, the mother nurses baby at her breast. She wears milk (human/goat/even (ick) formula) in a bag around her neck. A tiny flexible tube goes alongside her breast into teh baby's mouth and when baby sucks at teh breast baby not only gets moms milk (and stimulates more production of moms milk) but baby also gets, as through a straw, the milk that you are supplementing with. And you also get the eye development and brain development from nursing mom, switching sides, etc.

When our first "failure to thrive" baby was put on bottles we knew that we had a family history of dairy allergies so we opted for soy. When she was 3 she was diagnosed with not only allergies to dairy but also soy and wheat, likely from the formula exposure! When our seventh was also failure to thrive we struggled for a while and ended up on milk-based formula. He was perpetually ill, severe dairy sensitivities. He almost had surgery for suspected hirschsprungs disease due to these issues. He is still allrgic to much and has a finicky digestive system at age 7. Now most of the other of our children were all small. They were healthy, developed on time, but were small...usually dropping from the 50 percentile at birth to below the 3-5 percentile. We finally decided to conclude that our babies were just like that...tiny. Then we got goats. Our last 2 were raised on breastmilk AND goats milk. The difference is phenomenal. They are healthy, like our smaller non-supplemented babies were whereas our supplemented babies were NOT that healthy. But they are ROUND and chubby and unlike the others, content!

Lastly, and I say this with fear and trembling as someone who was once both a DIL and someone who is now the mother of adult children...we can give you the best advice in the world...but unless your DIL, the child's mother, seeks these answers you need to be prepared to just accept how she does it and pray a lot. Ultimately it comes down to what THEY want to do, what THEIR comfort levels are.

Oh, and it is NORMAL and to be expected that a breastfed baby will lose as much as 10% of their body weight at first and your grandchild's weight loss was exactly that, 10%.

Blossomgapfarm · #13 10/14/07, 06:07 PM

I am a RN and worked in a nursery/neonatal intensve care unit for 2 years. I have not practiced as a nurse in several years and believe much more in natural care - I greatly respect the midwives on this board and believe should I ever have another child, it would be with a much different mindset than the children I had in my 20's.

Breast milk is the best thing the baby can be on. (Formula is just nasty.) It does have a high water content - but so does all milk. Saying she stopped nursing because of that is an excuse. If a doctor convinced her to stop nursing based on that, it is a real shame. That being said, if your daughter-in-law only nursed for a couple of weeks and the baby is 6 mo old now, I am guessing she is not going to be interested in going back to breastfeeding.

I am concerned that you keep saying "we have one month." OK, so if there is no change, what is the result - what are "they" threatening to do? Are the doctors concerned that something is wrong with the baby and want to do testing or that she is not being taken care of? Not being able to see the baby, it is hard to determine what is wrong. She may just be small, but it sounds like you are afraid it she has more than just a weight problem. I think adding the goat milk would be good for her and certainly would not hurt. If there is a medical problem, you need to find out. Will be praying for your little one.
Dawn

oberhaslikid · #14 10/14/07, 06:25 PM

Her first daughter was alergic to milk and they put her on soy.
Now my grandson was second and he was Over in every way weight, height.They were trying to tell her to give only 4oz.every 4 hours and no more.for it seemed like forever.He is still over in all his aspects.
The third is the one in Question and She is so small.THe Dr told DIL that the baby was not getting what she needed because she lost the most weight on breast alone.So she supplemented with the soy with rice.The baby started gaining weight and they went Soy and rice alone.Thinking they were doing the right thing.I have mentioned the goat milk and got the rolled eyes thing.Finally after this Dr. visit and now finding out that the baby isnt using her arms or legs she doesnt set or try to roll over they think there is more there .She will start therapy and We have one month before going back to the Dr.for her next visit.They will send her off to the Childrens Hosp. and put a feeding tube in.
I have convinced them to at least try the goat milk and they are going too to see if it will help.
They can say one thing at my house but its what they do at theirs that will count.

deafgoatlady · #15 10/14/07, 06:38 PM

Well. Let me tell u something. I have BAD BAD experince with my Dr.. I told him that I am going to give my children with fresh goats milk. We got into it. BAD.. And The dr and I got into about the shots too. It just how they are trained by GOVT.. U know what I mean.. I am not talking about midwife. Usually Midwife likes more natural.. But Drs. is so different. I only see FEW Drs are really good and likes natural stuff. But not much. We really do need more of that good drs.. Anyways. I do know that a woman who have 7 kids. She nurses them ALL.. And even thou her baby is very small like urs. And u said the same thing like her baby did. But she is fine and she is small but very cute and grew out of it .. I was worried about her baby at first... I did nurse my kids. I rather to use breastmilk AND goats milk. And the mother said that her dr did agrue with her about her baby being so small and about the breastmilk. And surprisly she didnt listen to him. It did scare me to death. And she nurses her and gave her fresh cows milk and she is fine. And she dont feed them table food until she was like 9 months old.. She said she believes to wait becuz most baby's stomach cannot take solid food. So I tried that with my 3rd kid. And it works great! If I have another kid. I will do the same thing. And My daughter did have acid reflex. The dr gave me the acid reflux medication and it HELPS!!!... I hope your DIL and you guys can figure out!!! Let us know..

MayLOC · #16 10/14/07, 07:34 PM

I am going to strongly urge you to look into blood allergy testing. It is relatively inexpensive and easy and accurate. And unfortunately it is so often overlooked--especially by drs. AFter several very, very rough years, we found our unthrifty 4 yr. old had 55 food allergies. We went from one specialist to another and none of them connected the dots or asked the right questions. It was through internet research I began to suspect the allergies and they were confirmed with the testing. Not one of those drs. even hinted to the possibility and the one that signed the lab slip did it to pacify me. About 10 of the allergies were so elevated they were the highest the lab had ever tested. His list of symptoms began at birth and included but not limited to: throwing up (a lot) after every feeding, blood and mucus in stools, abdominal pain, sreaming 90% of every day, oversleeping and depressions with extended periods of food refusal, unhappiness and uncontentness at all times, head throwing while screaming, and the worst--tonic-clonic seizures! Would you believe all of these symptoms are gone with total avoidance of the allergens the past two years? We know they were symptoms because they all come back with any accidental exposure.

I will just say that drs. do not see it all. There are many drs. who cannot see outside the box. You have to advocate for your children yourself. Some drs. think they are God and know it all and a blessed few will look outside that textbook-case perfect diagnosis box. The best thing you can arm yourself with is knowledge...and of course that extends to everything in life.

chas · #17 10/14/07, 07:53 PM

Baby food is full of msg (very bad) and the dangers of soy has been stated earlier.
My sil had a baby the doc couldn't get to thrive and as a last resort he said find a source of raw goats milk.I happened to have my first ever goat freshen and now my neice has her own healthy baby, and at 5-11 and built like the proverbial brick ---- house.Is as healthy as a horse and NO allergies.
The mortality rate in Africa skyrocketed when they tried selling the new mothers on formula instead of breastfeeding.It's not nice to mess with mother nature.Sorry you are probly to young to remember that commercial

Chas

christij · #18 10/14/07, 08:55 PM

My dd was good size when born but since has been at the bottom of 5-10% on their weight scale -- it use to stress me out but she was fine in every other way, but I still stress over weight. DD never took a bottle so we went on demand until close to one but I tried to intro the cup sooner with goats milk after one she did take the cup with goats milk and weaned at 15 months and now she gets goat milk. She eats like a piggy but she's still small -- oh well!
I hope the little one comes into her own soon!

annabella1 · #19 10/14/07, 10:27 PM

My second child was allergic to my milk. He had terrible colic and constipation, before we realized that my milk was the problem he got some relief from pieces of glycerin supposatories (get infant sizes and if too big just cut them smaller,and follow the directions). One month after he was born I had to go in the hospital to have my gall bladder removed. Since I didn't want him to get the pain medicines I was getting, but I wanted to continue breast feeding. I expressed my milk while I was in the hospital and we put him on regular formula. My mom says all excited "his colic is all cleared up". When I went back to breast feeding after my surgery his colic came back. But he did not want to drink from a bottle, we had a hard time getting him to drink untill we got a "tommie tippee" cup. This is a kind of cup that toddlers use for training to drink on their own. At three months old he was holding this cup by himself to drink, and he was using regular formula. So my advice is to keep trying till you find what works. Breast milk may be whats best most of the time but don't feel guilty if it doesn't work.

MilkTester · #20 10/14/07, 11:08 PM

I am with all the other mamas in favor of breastfeeding! Quit the "solids" jarred, storebought baby food junk that you are feeding. He is wayyyy too young for that. Besides, most of that has been cooked, processed so much it hardly has any nutritional value. If you insist on feeding baby food down the road, I recommend getting yourself a baby food mill and making your own with whatever your family eats. The mama needs to get herself on some sort of healthy eating plan and devote her time to nursing. Too often, mothers try to loose the baby weight and be too active in other areas of life (housework, etc.) and their milk supply suffers. Tell her she needs to plant herself at home and make herself available to that baby 24/7. Co-sleeping is a wonderful way to up her supply since the baby has access whenever she wants.

As far as her Dr. goes.....RUN! When Dr.s recommend decreasing breastfeeding, it is a good sign they don't know what they are talking about. Supplementing can be a curse too because mothers think they dont need to put the baby to the breast as often since they have another source. WRONG! The more you nurse, the more milk you make. Period. And breastmilk is the perfect food, not formula which is full of fillers. Good Luck!