ADGA and NAIS

[AtHomeDaughter]

I copied this from my post: Goaty ADGA Question....Thought I would share case someone is out there like me and had not realized the NAIS is tied up in so many things, a real eye opener to me!!!

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I went to the ADGA site to search some more and seen something about chipping' goats. Suddenly it hit me...NAIS...I typed in NAIS and ADGA in a google search and the ADGA site came up with a link to a statement they made supporting the NAIS movement. sigh After my research I did (do your own if interested...NAIS and ADGA on your internet search), I am skipping the registered thing. Really a bummer to me cause I have read so much on the benefits of papers, but it's not worth my freedoms to own the animals I want without being tracked. Makes me a lil upset. DEFINATELY something I will be blogging about tonight (www.trulythoughtprovoking.blogspot.com)

http://adga.org/NAIS_Statement.html -official statement on NAIS by ADGA

http://www.fallcreekfarm.net/links.htm - found this site helpful

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Please read the ADGA statement, I posted it below. First off it was written by several folks including a friend of mine, who are very anti-NAIS. Each statement about supporting comes with a cavet for under certain circumstances. As a pro of NAIS, I was actually against this proposal. So as a NATIONAL organization, of thousands of people, in most countries.....and thousands of farms in most states already signed up for NAIS...over 200,000 in Texas alone, behind Michigans numbers...I have some real numbers as of last month if you want me to post them...ADGA must support not only the for's but the anti's. Of which obviously if you don't read internet rhetoric, there are as many fors as nays. So the statement to me does a decent job for both sides, and there are two sides. Vicki

ADGA's statement>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

ADGA supports the concept of a national animal identification system for purposes of trace-back in emergency situations, with the understanding that there are concerns which must be addressed as to issues of privacy, cost and implementation.

ADGA supports requiring the data system be kept confidential and exempt from disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act. Further, ADGA supports that this system be USDA-maintained and cannot support a sole-source privatized data system.

ADGA believes that the unit cost per animal for identification and tracking will place undue burden upon those that do not benefit from the economies of scale that will be available to larger livestock producers.

ADGA can only support monitoring activities considered high risk commingling events as defined through the efforts of the Sheep and Goat Species Working Groups.

ADGA is concerned that established methods of identification will be discarded in favor of a one size fits all identification device which would not be reliable or cost-effective for use on small ruminants.

ADGA supports using the methods of identification accepted under the National Scrapie Eradication Program pending future advances in reliable and cost-effective identification systems for small ruminants.

ADGA also encourages its members to remain engaged in NAIS by providing input through the Species Working Groups and other designated state and federal forums.

[southerngurl]

That just doesn't make me feel any better. I don't want any of it. The government has it's grubby paws in too much as it is.

[susanne]

it starts as soon as you are born with your birth certificate. it continues with your tax payer id, social security number and drivers license.
now, if you don't like it, you need to go to an island all by your self.

[jordan]

Bottom line is that each and every one of us has the right to make a choice concerning NAIS. Those choices were granted to us over 200 years ago.
Many may have forgotten that document and what it contains as well as what it really means. More just don't want to take responsibilty and would prefer the government, in it's infinate wisdom, take care of us and protect us from the boogyman without question. The government likes people like that. You keep handing them more power. Or, like Susanne, figure that they are already "monitoring" us, so what's the big deal?
That's fine, if those people wish to blithly hand over the rest of their constitutional rights, they can go to another fascist country (or island) while the rest of us try our best to control a government run amuck and preserve what we can of the constitution and bill of rights.

The USDA does not have the right to make those choices for us, nor have they shown themselves to have the responsibility OR morals to do so.

ADGA does not have the right to make those choices for us either, nor do they have the right to turn over our personal information in the event of disease outbreak.
ADGA is supposed to be an organization made up of it's members, all it's members. Did they EVER put this to a member vote? Not that I ever heard about...
This ADGA statement has been vastly toned down from their original support statement, but you still walk away knowing where the organization stands.

There are two sides to the NAIS issue, absolutely correct, which is why NAIS should NEVER be accepted by the masses. There is no middle ground.

For those that say we NEED some sort of program, I ask you, why? Has the press been lax in reporting all these supposed threats to our food supply? Those threats aren't coming from the small farms, almost all have come from the processing plants. So the USDA DECREASES the number of inspections there, and comes up with NAIS instead...
And don't you think a public service announcement would work just as well and definately more quickly? Just another option that hasn't been explored.

I figure if NAIS had been in place when the BIG avian influenza scare reared it's ugly head (and whatever happened there???), there would not be a chicken left clucking in this country.

As for the number of premises registered being an indicator of support...ABSOLUTELY NOT!
It is a fact that many have been registered without knowledge OR consent! I know it happened to me AFTER I called to say I would NOT participate. I cut that little ID into pieces and mailed it back to them! My best guess is that they mined the VOLUNTARY scrapies database. Or how about when they threatened to pull dairy licenses if farmers didn't comply? Would you call that voluntary or coercion? So please don't use those registration numbers as an indicator of NAIS support, that, like NAIS itself, is a little misleading and ambiguous.
Lois

[southerngurl]

Originally Posted by susanne

it starts as soon as you are born with your birth certificate. it continues with your tax payer id, social security number and drivers license.
now, if you don't like it, you need to go to an island all by your self.

I think that's kinda what the first people here where trying to do.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

ADGA does not have the right to make those choices for us either, nor do they have the right to turn over our personal information in the event of disease outbreak.
.................................................. ...

Actually yes they do..if you belong to ADGA, ABGA, IBGA, AGS your tattoos coincide with your scarpie ID number so your goats do not wear tags. And in all other livestock associations, your eartag, tattoo and micorchip numbers are also scrapie orpremise tagged with a state or federal data base unless and even when you wear tags.

I am about 99% sure that ADGA members voted yea or nay on this in the News and Events? If you read the ADGA letter above it is white bread. Vicki

[susanne]

lois as long as you produce your own food, you are absolutely right, the government does not need to know what you are doing. as soon as you go out and feed the public (food leaving your farm) government is responsible for public health.
nais is not about tagging animals that will never leave your farm, but only those that are going out in the food chain.
i want to know where the tb, bse or jone's cow came from.

[jordan]

Susanne,
"as soon as you go out and feed the public (food leaving your farm) government is responsible for public health."
They've done such a bang up job so far, why would you trust them to handle this responsibly?

"nais is not about tagging animals that will never leave your farm, but only those that are going out in the food chain."
If my animals leave my farm AT ALL it would require tagging and eventually reporting. It's not just about the food chain and since most problems occur AFTER the animal leaves the farm and is IN the food chain, what good would NAIS really do?

"i want to know where the tb, bse or jone's cow came from."
And there are already programs in place that give you those answers WITHOUT trampling our rights. And if you know that that cow is within 6 miles of you, you've never had contact with the owner, the farm or the cow, will you be grateful for that knowledge when your animals are destroyed too?
If NAIS were really about disease control, would our government be opening our borders to Canadian beef over 30 months of age? A country with known BSE issues? Weren't all 3 cases of mad cow found in the US traced back to Canada?

[deafgoatlady]

AMEN Jordan. I agree with u. I dont wanna to deal with NAIS. We have enuff of problems. It is way too much for us who dont have that many goats..

[jordan]

"Actually yes they do..if you belong to ADGA, ABGA, IBGA, AGS your tattoos coincide with your scarpie ID number so your goats do not wear tags. And in all other livestock associations, your eartag, tattoo and micorchip numbers are also scrapie orpremise tagged with a state or federal data base unless and even when you wear tags."
I am aware that those numbers all tie in with the scrapie program, but I am saying that ADGA doesn't have the right to turn my info over to anyone WITHOUT PERMISSION. Kind of like the government not being able to enter my property without a warrant...

"I am about 99% sure that ADGA members voted yea or nay on this in the News and Events? If you read the ADGA letter above it is white bread."
Vicki, when was this done? It was not done when the original position statement came out. I cancelled my membership shortly after that...

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

If my animals leave my farm AT ALL it would require tagging and eventually reporting.
...............................

There aren't even set in stone rules for this yet...it's all speculation, mostly its about fear, and there seems to be alot of that about everything as of late. Yes reporting, when over 1000 animals congregate at a national show in an arena, from all over the country for a week, yep it should already be a little more than health certificates, that are only kept in state data bases. Multiply this by thousands of species nationals and shows and yep when your animal leaves your premise and can come in contact with other livestock (vets, trailrides, playdays, shows), it should be tracked by you. It really is nothing more than paperwork that everyone should be doing that we don't. This is livestock folks. Keep them home. And I have never seen the 'proof' that it will cause me to go out of buisness or have to sell all my goats. I am working with this program so we get microchipping not ear tags! Vicki

[susanne]

very much in favor for the micro chips as well.
they don't get lost like tags, or get unreadable, like tattoos over time, because someone did a lousy job

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

It's what the scrapie program is about. If a goat has scrapies, or is in herd that comes down with it, or auction barn....they read the tattoo, they can't tell from the tattoo who the person is if the sale was out of the state, so they contact ADGA or AGS or whoever to find out who VSJ in the right ear is. ADGA tells them Vicki McGaugh in Tx. The state vet come here, I go to my books which show I sold this doe this date, this time to whom with their address and phone number at the time of sale, so they can track the animals movements. I can also show the animal did not originate here, or has been gone long enough that it wasn't communicable here, this record keeping will keep me form being quaranteened,and perhaps loosing 10% of my stock to necropsy.

With NAIS....it won't be some old gal at the dead end of a dirt road in East Texas records in a book...it will be data base records in the national data base, of which Iwouldhave a printout receipt, also showing the sale of my animal and when...for me it's about protecting my stock.

If it wasn't a News and Events post than it was something I contacted me directors about, knowing full well that the yea's severely outweighed my nays about this subject, before convention. And it's also why when you join associations you get involved, so you aren't belonging to a group you don't know, like with scrapies in ADGA, who already have you in a data base Which means you can't belong to any ligit association! Happy tagging. This subject gives me a headache because I know you don't see my point, and anti folks, well it just doesn't make sense...get your PEACE T shirts on instead! This is all just more diversion, meaningless diversion to get the usually most militant of our nation onto someting meaningless instead of on the white house steps. Vicki

[susanne]

______...get your PEACE T shirts on instead!_________

yeah, get those shirts out of the moth chest

[jordan]

"There aren't even set in stone rules for this yet...it's all speculation, mostly its about fear, and there seems to be alot of that about everything as of late."
There is some speculation but what do you think the Draft Stretegic plan is? Everything the USDA has put out in an effort to diffuse the opposition has still referred back to that and left so many loopholes for making this "voluntary" program mandatory at any time the USDA chooses.
Why would you sign on for a program that has "no set in stone rules"? Would you hand over a blank check?
You are absolutely correct about the fear mongering, but I think we would disagree about the sources. I remember clearly the rhetoric the USDA has spouted over the years as to why this is nesessary. The 3 whole cases of Mad Cow, the bird flu, terrorist threat to our food supply...

"Yes reporting, when over 1000 animals congregate at a national show in an arena, from all over the country for a week, yep it should already be a little more than health certificates, that are only kept in state data bases. Multiply this by thousands of species nationals and shows and yep when your animal leaves your premise and can come in contact with other livestock (vets, trailrides, playdays, shows), it should be tracked by you."
When those animals congregate at shows of any size, tattoo numbers/tags are on the entry forms and it is the choice of every exhibitor to enter or stay home.
If something were to occur, the information is readily available from the show paperwork without forcing the entire livestock owning population to give up their rights.
Personally, I am not willing to "report" to the government any time my property moves. Smacks of fascism.

"why when you join associations you get involved, so you aren't belonging to a group you don't know, like with scrapies in ADGA, who already have you in a data base Which means you can't belong to any ligit association!"
I do belong to a legit association that won't sell me down the road. At least not without a court order!
I have never said the info isn't out there in databases such as the scrapies (a voluntary) program, I have an issue with a mandated program that forces one to give up constitutional rights with no clear outline or cost benefit analysis.
If you want to be in that NAIS database, that is your CHOICE, yet if that NAIS database becomes mandated then I must give up my choice in the matter, let go of my beliefs, and if I can't do that, force me to get rid of my animals.
Whether you believe NAIS is a beneficial livestock program or not, it boils down to a further errosion of the constitution and there has been WAY too much of that over the last years!

I guess I'm looking at the whole picture when it comes to NAIS. I see the errosion of our rights with little benefit to any but the large producer, the micro chip companies, the factory farms and the government. I see that the billions of tax dollars that have and would continue to be spent could/would be better utilized on other programs such as animal health or education.

[southerngurl]

Originally Posted by jordan

"There aren't even set in stone rules for this yet...it's all speculation, mostly its about fear, and there seems to be alot of that about everything as of late."
There is some speculation but what do you think the Draft Stretegic plan is? Everything the USDA has put out in an effort to diffuse the opposition has still referred back to that and left so many loopholes for making this "voluntary" program mandatory at any time the USDA chooses.
Why would you sign on for a program that has "no set in stone rules"? Would you hand over a blank check?
You are absolutely correct about the fear mongering, but I think we would disagree about the sources. I remember clearly the rhetoric the USDA has spouted over the years as to why this is nesessary. The 3 whole cases of Mad Cow, the bird flu, terrorist threat to our food supply...

"Yes reporting, when over 1000 animals congregate at a national show in an arena, from all over the country for a week, yep it should already be a little more than health certificates, that are only kept in state data bases. Multiply this by thousands of species nationals and shows and yep when your animal leaves your premise and can come in contact with other livestock (vets, trailrides, playdays, shows), it should be tracked by you."
When those animals congregate at shows of any size, tattoo numbers/tags are on the entry forms and it is the choice of every exhibitor to enter or stay home.
If something were to occur, the information is readily available from the show paperwork without forcing the entire livestock owning population to give up their rights.
Personally, I am not willing to "report" to the government any time my property moves. Smacks of fascism.

"why when you join associations you get involved, so you aren't belonging to a group you don't know, like with scrapies in ADGA, who already have you in a data base Which means you can't belong to any ligit association!"
I do belong to a legit association that won't sell me down the road. At least not without a court order!
I have never said the info isn't out there in databases such as the scrapies (a voluntary) program, I have an issue with a mandated program that forces one to give up constitutional rights with no clear outline or cost benefit analysis.
If you want to be in that NAIS database, that is your CHOICE, yet if that NAIS database becomes mandated then I must give up my choice in the matter, let go of my beliefs, and if I can't do that, force me to get rid of my animals.
Whether you believe NAIS is a beneficial livestock program or not, it boils down to a further errosion of the constitution and there has been WAY too much of that over the last years!

I guess I'm looking at the whole picture when it comes to NAIS. I see the errosion of our rights with little benefit to any but the large producer, the micro chip companies, the factory farms and the government. I see that the billions of tax dollars that have and would continue to be spent could/would be better utilized on other programs such as animal health or education.

Excellent post.

And consider the financial cost. What a bear of a bloated program it would be.

[Texas_Plainsman]

Originally Posted by susanne

lois as long as you produce your own food, you are absolutely right, the government does not need to know what you are doing. as soon as you go out and feed the public (food leaving your farm) government is responsible for public health.
nais is not about tagging animals that will never leave your farm, but only those that are going out in the food chain.
i want to know where the tb, bse or jone's cow came from.

That is bunk. The federal government is NOT responsible for public health. We have a federal government to regulate interstate commerce and to provide a common defense. I already have a daddy, I don't need big government. As a consumer I don't want NAIS food. I choose to buy my meat and produce locally. Eventually, anyone will need buy more breeder stock so the whole thing about not having to tag your animals at home is a joke. NAIS is about control of the food supply. First, USDA helped fund the terminator seed and now they want control of your animals. Stop NAIS NOW!

[susanne]

isn't it great that we live in a free country and everybody is entitled to have an opinion?

[jordan]

"isn't it great that we live in a free country and everybody is entitled to have an opinion?"

It certainly is! That has been my point all along!
So why would you willing to give up some of your rights, but not others? How long do you think freedom of speech would last at that rate?