johne's disease

[oceanmist]

what are the signs and symptoms of Johne's disease?

can only one goat show external signs?

Also what are the signs of internal CL abcesses?

Thanks Misty

[susanne]

you might want to go to tenneseegoats.com and look it up.

those are diseases that are very often coming without signs.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

what are the signs and symptoms of Johne's disease? In goats it is an older goat disease, wasteing, soft poop, goats rarely show the profuse diarrhea of cattle. And in the 100's of goats for export tested not one, and Iam talking about nasty icky brokered from dairies going out of business does, not one positive. Spread in manure to everyone.

can only one goat show external signs? Of CL, no they can have internal abscess or external. Out ward signs of Johnnes is skeletally thin animals.

Also what are the signs of internal CL abcesses? There are none, perhaps cough...but you will have external abscess, after kidding, after moving in new goats. Vicki

[hoofinitnorth]

Vicki - can you clarify your statement of no goats having Johne's? Is that in your experience of goats or are you saying never in any goats in the US?

There's been cases of it up here in goats.

[susanne]

Clinically, the only sign of M. paratuberculosis infection may be weight loss in the face of a good appetite. Even if noted, the weight loss is often attributed to other causes (enteroparasites, teeth problems, etc). Diarrhea is not a frequent sign of Johne's disease in goats although it can occur in some cases.

The biology of this disease makes diagnosis challenging: the animal may not appear ill nor produce consistent, specific and long-lasting immunologic signs of the infection until months after the infection occurs. Test results may be negative therefore although the animal is truly infected. For instance, a "false-negative" fecal culture test result may occur since the organism is shed only intermittently. This means the particular manure sample collected may not contain M. paratuberculosis although the animal is truly infected. Another example is a negative blood test result for an animal with Johne's disease. This "false-negative" result usually occurs because the element the test is looking for (antibody) is not produced by the goat until late in the disease: since the infected goat may be at an earlier phase of the infection and has not made any antibody yet, the test result is negative.

There are however a number of effective tests for Johne's disease diagnosis that have helped animal managers detect and control the infection, especially on a herd basis and for clinically affected animals.

http://www.johnes.org/goats/diagnosis.html

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Vicki - can you clarify your statement of no goats having Johne's?
.............

I didn't say that. I said that of the hundreds of exported does I tested, none tested positive for Johnnes. Is the test accurate, no more or less accurate than the testing for cattle. I think it's mostly a zebra disease, in that folks see thin stock on what they think is a good diet, but it's likely worms, cocci and simply poor animal husbandry, rarely if ever Johnnes. When faced with sypmtoms see what is in front of you, don't go wasteing your time hunting for zebras (exotic diseases).

Susanne, where is your post copied from? Vicki

[susanne]

it is the link under the text.

JOHNE'S INFORMATION CENTER - University of Wisconsin School of Veterinary Medicine

[hoofinitnorth]

Vicki - I was pretty sure you were saying it was from your specific personal experience but wasn't sure, sorry I didn't word my request for clarification well.

I agree, Johne's is an Occam's Razor (sp?) - hear hoofbeats think HORSES not ZEBRAS. I guess Johne's has been found in wild moose up here though and I do know one gal personally (not well, but I do know her) that had Johne's go through her herd. She had to destroy all the animals and start over, I guess.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

I would bet also that up north with animals closed into close quarters because of being snowed in that if an older doe was Johnnes positive it would make a much larger impact in a herd. But like most things in goats, although things are duplicated in labs, most stuff doesn't work like that on the farm. Another good reason when purchasing your foundation animals to be able to look around the farm and see 6 to 10 year olds in good flesh.

There is lots of talk about how you can scew results with bolusing, is it really a positive then if after bolusing the animal is negative? Likely not. I think copper and selenium both are going to be huge when we look back in 10 years, both for our goats but for us. All this low iron even after taking their prenatal vitamins and eating our spinach...perhaps like in goats it's the copper and selenium all along. Vicki

[hoofinitnorth]

Yes!

[Jillis]

Normal anemia in humans can very often be alleviated by taking blackstrap molasses daily. Mine is at am amazing level for a woman of my age. I cured my 2 yo sons with this when the pills and diet didn't help at ALL. The difference was so rapid and steep that the doctor adopted this into his protocol for anemic patients.

And Vicki is right (of course!) about the minerals in both goats and humans. And many people are tracking with that, just not the established medical institution.

I actually learned from my goats the two most valuable things I ever learned to aid my own health and that of my family and friends:

The importance of the right amount of the right minerals in the right balance.

The importance of healthy gut flora to aid in the absorption and use of the same.

Probiotics such as kefir, kombucha, kimchi, and etc. and whole, raw and lightly cooked natural foods provide enzymes to digest, utilize and absorb, wipe out candidiasis which hardens cell walls so minerals cannot pass through and much, much more.

Absolutely NO transfatty acids for man or beast---also harden cell walls and replaces healthy fat with bad fat. Anything with hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated oils has transfatty acids even of the label says NO transfatty acids.

We've seen a big difference, and I have friends with auto-immune diseases and other ailments helped tremendously with this knowledge---those who care to listen and do the work necessary to make changes.

WOT, I know, but worth stating.

Once again, thanks for your amazing insight, Vicki!

[hoofinitnorth]

Vicki - to clarify, I'm not sure how many people close in their goats all winter long. I've only visited a few places and seen pictures of a few more and everyone there lets their goats out year 'round. BUT, I can see where closing them in, or restricting their turn-out to a relatively small area could cause management issues or multiply the effects of an illness, as suggested with Johne's.

I hope I never deal with it and I hope no one up here ever has to again either.

[lonelyfarmgirl]

whats the cure?

[susanne]

there is no cure

[hoofinitnorth]

Sorry, I referred to Vicki's post above without knowing it was in this thread! LOL

Reference deleted.