Mini Goat Info

[Missy M]

I've seen here where some folks have mini dairy breeds. How do they compare to stadard size dairy goats in milk production and amount of feed required?

[hoofinitnorth]

Just like any of the larger breeds, it depends on the breed, the genetic strains, and the individual goats (age, health, genetics, environment, # of times milked daily, etc.). For instance, the genetics from which I am purchasing my goats have been tested at over 6# of milk daily - each! That's a LOT Of milk from a 20"-tall goat that barely eats anything! Now those were not first fresheners and they had really optimal conditions, but not a lot of alfalfa (mostly local grass hay with supplemental grains when needed) and no chemicals in their feed or bodies except where completely unavoidable.

The individual goats I'm buying probably average around 2.5 to 4 pounds of milk per day with the first freshener at the low end of the scale and the older doe closer to the top, but they are being milked just once daily right now and when they come home I will try to increase that to twice a day and see if it helps production.

A lot of the mini-goat folks swear that you can feed two small goats for the cost of one big goat and get about the same amount of milk BUT the key thing is that you have to have at least 2 goats so why not two minis instead of 2 big goats eating you out of house and home? Especially up here where feed costs are astronomical, land is at a premium, fewer areas are allowing goats and livestock in your backyards (even if it's several acres!), and our state does not allow the sale of the milk.

I love the big goats and I'll eventually be getting some but for me it was a good way to introduce myself into goats with minis since they are *supposedly* easier to handle (you can just pick them up if you have to get them to the vet NOW LOL) and I am having a hard time finding big goats locally that are from totally clean/closed herds. Still looking!!!

If you google the mini goat breed associations it might help you to find some more helpful information. Good luck!

[xoxoGOATSxoxo]

what do they look like?

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

I know my friends mini manchas of which I have had two, now one, eat barely less than their Nubian and Lamancha counterparts. Just like all hybrids the first cross milks the most with the last cross milking the least. With a reduction of teat and udder size with each cross. My 3rd generation you would not want to milk without a machine, her teats are small and with a full udder her teats will not be graspable. I do think the swiss and Lamancha crosses have a real place on small farmsteads...the Nubian ears....YIKES! I wouldn't call them nubians. Vicki

[Jillis]

So, Vicki, are you saying that if you breed a mini-Nubian (kinder) to another mini-Nubian, as you continue these types of breedings, the milking capacity diminishes with each generation?
I would be interested in reading some info on that, of you have any titles or sites.
Thanks, Jill!

[Wags]

www.ndga.com is a good site to read up on Nigerian Dwarfs.
www.miniaturedairygoats.com is another useful site

[Blue Oak Ranch]

Just for clarity's sake - Kinders are a cross between Nubians and Pygmy goats - Mini Nubians are a cross between Nubians and Nigerian Dwarfs.

I think what Vicki was talking about was generational differences in Mini production - that the goal with minis is body size reduction as you progress in generation. Unfortunately, that may also mean reduction in size of teats and less production.

I have a 2nd gen Mini Nubian doe that stands just shy of 22". She peaked at a hair over 10lbs this spring as a second freshener (twins) - nice udder to boot. She doesn't eat nearly as much as her bigger, porkier friends! I don't have any hard data on that, because I run all the milkers together - this is based solely on the few times I've penned separately.

Now, Crashy may milk like a demon - but she has small teats. Thank goodness she has large orifices! They're proportional to her size, though, because if she had large teats they'd cause problems.

One of the things I breed for in Mini Nubians is both ease of milking and production characteristics as well as breed character. I also don't like super tiny minis - I breed for mid-size dairy animals. I find it's too hard on my back and hands for those tiny ones!

If milk production is key for you, with the lower feed input, you have to find breeders who is making these characteristics part of their breeding programs. You can't just cross any two random animals, select the offpsring only on basis of breed character, and expect to have the same results.

Get the minis - you'll enjoy them!

Cheers!

Katherine

[Lizzieag]

I have Nigerian Dwarfs and while I only get about 1 quart a day per doe (compared to 1 gallon from a larger goat) I can feed 8 adult Nigerian dwarfs for the same cost as 1 adult Nubian, so I feel that I am doing pretty good. I find that they are easier to handle than the big goats. I can pick up by full grown does and move them with ease (my buck is a little more challenging)

I don't know how the Mini breeds produce, but my Nigerians are great!

[Jillis]

I don't know too much about how to breed for the desired characteristics. I am trying to breed my best animals---the ones with well-shaped, easy to milk udders, high milk production, and good personalities. I have some outstanding animals from championship lines as well as some nice grade goats that I purchased as babies from a large dairy farm before I knew what to look for and was going for "cute" I guess.

I have already culled most of those grades but I have one that is a very good milker. She is a goofy looking Nupine and she is my best milker, production-wise. The only thing I don't like is that her teats are smallish, thought not as small as a Nigie's. Also they are slightly off to the outsides of her udder. So in order to hand milk I have to really pull in to point them into the pail. Once she is halfway milked out, it is easier, because I can grab more of the udder itself. More to hold onto makes it easier to milk in the right direction, and since her teats are small, it is less strain on my hands.

I may sell her, in spite of her production, rather than breed her to my Nigie buck. My Nigie buck throws gorgeous daughters, very correct conformation, and he comes from outstanding milking lines, for Nigies. I bred him to my Alpine doe and she gave me a beautiful daughter, who already seems to have nice teats for a mini. Her mother is just behind the Nupine in production, very good milker, and her udder is much more correct. I kept another two daughters of his from another Nupine that I sold when they were three weeks old. They are just beautiful! One is solid black and the other is a perfect black and tan. Their conformation is wonderful and their mother is a good milker. They seem to have nice teats for babies. You can tell a bit by how sizable they are even when they are young. Although you really can't tell for sure until they bag up and you start milking them. These three, and a Nupine that I crossed from my Alpine and Nubian that were both from championship lines (the mother, whom I sold, was an outstanding milker, and the sire had a dam that milked out 20 lbs a day in her first freshening at peak) will probably be the foundation of my herd. I also kept a really sweet daughter from the Alpine buck (crossed with a high-production Nupine with, unfortunately balloon teats---I didn't know about taping them). So that is five keepers, not counting my Nigies. I haven't decided about those but have already sold some.

I am starting to get picky and also to be able to sell goats I "like" for no good reasons, in a pet sort of way.

Thanks for the input, Jill!

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

I can feed 8 adult Nigerian dwarfs for the same cost as 1 adult Nubian
....................

There is no way this can be true. You are saying if you are feeding an adult Nigerian Dwarf 1/2 pound of milkstand grain for your 1 quart of milk, that we would then be feeding 4 pounds of grain for our 1 gallon, in reality we only feed 2 pounds, and our does likely weight just 3 times as much as one of your does, certainly not 8 times as much.

Most of the first cross mini breeds, including kinders, are not that much smaller than their cousins. And yes as you bring down the size you bring down the size of udder and teats. Especially because we are talking pygmy bloodlines here, not nigerians. So the breeding of realistically two meat breeds, Nubians and Pygmy, the milk ability of this line is going to be poor. Now use a top Nubian for production and udder conformation and sure you could end up with some very milky kinders, but she is getting hers for free.

Both of my 3rd generation mini lamancha's, are the size of my 8 month old Nubian does, an udder on them that milks a gallon would put that udder under thier hocks. Vicki

[susanne]

for some reason it takes me less time to milk one goat than four. even if the milk output equals four. management is more time consuming with minis as well.
i do understand the love some have for their minis. i do not see economical advantage.

[susanne]

looked at blue oak ranch third generation mini nubians. they are able to compete with their nice ears with some standard nubians.
http://www.freetimesw.com/blueoakranch/newbabies.htm

very nice kids katherine. congratulation

[pookshollow]

you can just pick them up if you have to get them to the vet NOW LOL

My 150 lb Saanen doe will fit into the back of my Sunfire, when necessary.

I can feed 8 adult Nigerian dwarfs for the same cost as 1 adult Nubian

I can't! My adult Nubian might be 120 lbs, and my Nigerians run 40-60 lbs. They'd have to be awfully small Nigies.

I have a Nigerian/Saanen cross doeling that I've been trying to sell. If she doesn't go, I'll keep her and breed her, see what sort of producer she is. Should be interesting.

[hoofinitnorth]

Are the Nigerian Dwarf and Pygmy goats the only true miniature breeds (as in they are naturally miniature, not mini by crossing a large goat with a small goat)?

[hoofinitnorth]

NDGA link correction - http://ndga.org

[Feral Nature]

Originally Posted by hoofinitnorth

Are the Nigerian Dwarf and Pygmy goats the only true miniature breeds (as in they are naturally miniature, not mini by crossing a large goat with a small goat)?

Yes, unless there is some obscure breed somewhere in the world....there are many foreign goat breeds we are unaware of in other parts.

[Feral Nature]

I will be milking two 3rd generation Mini LaManchas for the first time next spring. they eat less than their full-sized counter parts and it will be interesting to see how they freshen. Hoping they will give well and be not too hard to milk. They get alot of attention here on the farm, and I doubt I will have any trouble when it is time to sell their kids, which will be 4th generation. People just love these girls, they are pretty cute