Whats the right breeding times?

[HazyDay]

I have always been told wait till a doe is atlest 1 year old to breed her, But I went to see my 4-h leader's new alpine buck! And she had him in with her does born in Feb 2007! They looked the same size as my doe. Would you say this doe is readly to breed this fall? She was born April 26. It's not a huge deal to breed her or not. I will have 7 does kidding, But feeding her for the winter and not getting anything from her is alot of money!

Also Every one says wait till they are 50% - 60% their full weight, But all my does are different in good weights! One is 200 pounds and looks good. The other is very dairy and nver would hit 130 pounds!


So here is the doe. If I was to breed her it would be to see what her udder is like. Her mother is all dairy but also all udder. BAD fore and rear attchment. At around 6 weeks she was milking 1 gallon in the am and 3/4 gallon at night! I STOPPED milking on July 1st and I just got her dried off! And she is still filling up every few days! Just won't dry up!
She weighs around 120 pounds and looks good. I still would like 2o more pounds on her!


SO THIS IS THE DOE I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF SHE WOULD BE READLY TO BREED!





Sorry I don't have a weight on her! Mom's boer ate my weight tape! Will try tomorrow!

[mary,tx]

She does not look big enough now. If she was kidded in April, that makes her only five months old--waaaay too young. I'd say wait another three or four months, at least, then see how much she weighs. You want at least 80 pounds on her, and I don't like to breed under about 10 months.
mary

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

If she is your only April kid why not keep her to show her as a dry yearling next year?

An April kid who weighs 120 pounds, nope She would be a blimp on stick legs at that age Well unless not weaned yet, but weaned she would slim down quickly without the high fat diet. If she is that weight, cut her grain, she needs the Jenny Craig pen and fast!!!

I breed my kids at 7 and 8 months (some at 9 months this year because my buck breeding some of them is an April kid), but I have been doing this from before you were born...I have never gotten to say that before

For yourself think ahead to show season, make sure you fill some of the classes, perhaps not only with just milking 6 weeks does, but also kids who will be at the high end of the age class. Like at a March show with this kid 11 months old in the 9 to 12 month old class! Or summer shows with her in the 12 to 24 month class.

Do you really want to be milking that many?

But Freshening them also gets that udder out and appraised, so you can sell her if she doesn't fill most of the 35 points you need it to fill, and you also don't keep reusing bucks who don't give you that udder also!

Who you breeding to this year? Vicki

[southerngurl]

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

I breed my kids at 7 and 8 months (some at 9 months this year because my buck breeding some of them is an April kid), but I have been doing this from before you were born...I have never gotten to say that before

...And since I was a yearling myself!

[HazyDay]

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

If she is your only April kid why not keep her to show her as a dry yearling next year?

An April kid who weighs 120 pounds, nope She would be a blimp on stick legs at that age Well unless not weaned yet, but weaned she would slim down quickly without the high fat diet. If she is that weight, cut her grain, she needs the Jenny Craig pen and fast!!!

I breed my kids at 7 and 8 months (some at 9 months this year because my buck breeding some of them is an April kid), but I have been doing this from before you were born...I have never gotten to say that before

For yourself think ahead to show season, make sure you fill some of the classes, perhaps not only with just milking 6 weeks does, but also kids who will be at the high end of the age class. Like at a March show with this kid 11 months old in the 9 to 12 month old class! Or summer shows with her in the 12 to 24 month class.

Do you really want to be milking that many?

But Freshening them also gets that udder out and appraised, so you can sell her if she doesn't fill most of the 35 points you need it to fill, and you also don't keep reusing bucks who don't give you that udder also!

Who you breeding to this year? Vicki

wow! over 16 years!!!

It's not a huge deal, not breeding her.

Vicki I will be milking 4 this year.
3 nubians
1 Alpine X Saanen X Nubian

The other ones are 3 boers who will be dam raising.

This year I am breeding all my does (not inculding Faith and Lily. Faith is the mother of my buck and Lily will be bred Alpine to make her kids. 75% Alpine 12.5% Saanen and 12.5% Nubian)

Here is my bucks info.

http://www.clrc.ca/cgi-bin/pedigree....gnumbersuffix=

Also what is appraising? Or getting her appraised?
Im not sure we do that! or could be me! Do you do Type Classification in the US or is this the 35 points thingy?

Here is the info it has on the CGS web-site

Classification compares a dairy goat or a pygmy to the ideal of its breed. The animal is evaluated on conformation in several different areas, given a score in each area, and then given an overall score.

Classifiers trained by the Canadian Goat Society are assigned tours of different regions of the country to evaluate herds which have applied for the service. Because of the need for scheduling, herd owners are required to apply for Classification by a certain date. When the schedule is finalized, the herd owner is given a date and time when the Classifier will arrive to assess the herd.

The Society adheres to a Non-Selective program which requires that all registered animals on the farm be presented for classification. This enables classification data to be used in Buck and Doe Genetic Evaluations, to identify sires and dams whose offspring are consistently superior in soundness and type.

Contact the CGS Office or a CGS Director for more information about Type Classification.

Thats what it says! I am going to get my buck in it and his mother to see if I should keep her.

I guess if she is 90 pounds by the end of the year I *may* breed her. But if every doe has twins thats 14 kids! a big jump from 8 this year!

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

We used to call appriasal classification. In fact I do still say my doe is classified in converstaion. And it is still listed on ADGA paperwork as CL for classification years. If you can't appraise, at least take your milkers to a show or invite a local breeder to your house before milking or a judge if you know one.

I forget not everyone is in the US, had never seen your Canadian registry page before! Cool...not as much info as ADGA.

I bought my first purebred Nubian September 1986, not a very good nubian considering not even 10 months later she became a recorded grade from someone being caught lieing on paperwork, the buck was long ago dead! They were using another buck and saying it was the dead buck. The next year a milker I purchased had her * stripped when a PRIEST got caught lieing on milktest! Oh brother! So to say the least I had avery interesting start into Nubians! The good thing was that directors and the board all knew about this young mother in Texas who had all this bad stuff happen her first couple of years Might not have been a good way for people to know my name, but knew it they did!

Yep you want her in the high 90's when you breed her. Vicki

[Jim S.]

I use the cattle guide for breeding. If the kid is 75% of her mama's size, she is good to go. In my dairy crossed meat herd, that happens at 6-7 months of age. I understand dairy goats are more slight of frame, so I'm not saying this will work in dairy goats. But Vicki's breeding age indicates it does. One thing I know for sure is that the economics of farming goats gets dicey if you have to wait for a year or 18 months to breed them, while the overhead costs continue to accrue.

There is a period of 3 weeks after conception when the egg is unattached. Once it attaches, there is a period of 8 weeks in which the kid fetus(es) take first nutritional priority over the dam, no matter what nutrition she is receiving. So it is important -- and SUPER-important with younger-bred does -- that they either be getting what they need when bred or be on a rising plane of nutrition to get what they need. (In the case of dry does on marginal pasture, the rising plane concept works once they are bred, and that combo saves the farm money on inputs by keeping supplement costs at zero prior to actual breeding.)

It is the lack of proper nutrition that leads to complaints of stunting, and also to many an assisted birth that didn't have to be. Note, though, that "proper nutrition" doesn't mean to just toss the grain to them. The idea is to get them what they need but keep them from getting too fat, which also can cause kidding troubles.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

There is a period of 3 weeks after conception when the egg is unattached. Once it attaches, there is a period of 8 weeks in which the kid fetus(es) take first nutritional priority over the dam, no matter what nutrition she is receiving. So it is important -- and SUPER-important with younger-bred does -- that they either be getting what they need when bred or be on a rising plane of nutrition to get what they need. (In the case of dry does on marginal pasture, the rising plane concept works once they are bred, and that combo saves the farm money on inputs by keeping supplement costs at zero prior to actual breeding.)
..................

Super post Jim, do you know where this implantation period is written down. I learned this as a matter of just stated fact back in the 80's and now the 'new' information poopoo's it. It is also thetime the doe can selectively absorb kids if her nutritional needs won't be met. Vicki

[susanne]

although not specifically only for goats, this article explains very well how the reproductive cycle works.

http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/bio105/sexual.htm

makes me wonder, if i can take the temp of my goats over a period of time, to get the ovulation point?

[HazyDay]

Thanks every one!

The 120 pounds is for her mother. Not her! She would be worse then a pigmy! Even more then a beer keg with legs!

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

although not specifically only for goats
..................

snicker

Ovualtion isn't what we are talking about we are talking about implantation. Vicki

[Blossomgapfarm]

Can you get a heart girth measurement? Would love to know how much she weighs. She is very pretty.
Dawn

[HazyDay]

Originally Posted by Blossomgapfarm

Can you get a heart girth measurement? Would love to know how much she weighs. She is very pretty.
Dawn

Thanks wanna buy her? I think her udder is looking like it is gonna be a bad one! I may have 3 people who would buy her, But I would like to sell her and her mother as a group buy. I just don't like the bad udders! Her mother was a impuse buy. I wanted more then 1 nubian doe. But I would like to find a *good* home to sell both as milkers since they put it in the PAIL!

Is 1 gallon in the am and 3/4 in the pm a good amount? I don't know! I do know it is darn good when looking at my other doe. And shes 2 years older!

[Blossomgapfarm]

Well Hazy, if Louisiana were not so far from Canada I might think about it, LOL. Too bad the mom has a bad looking udder. 1 and 3/4 gallon is great for a Nubian (good for any of the dairy breeds) but if you weighed it and could say how many pounds that is it would be better - just looking at it gives room for speculation.

[HazyDay]

Originally Posted by Blossomgapfarm

Well Hazy, if Louisiana were not so far from Canada I might think about it, LOL. Too bad the mom has a bad looking udder. 1 and 3/4 gallon is great for a Nubian (good for any of the dairy breeds) but if you weighed it and could say how many pounds that is it would be better - just looking at it gives room for speculation.

I think 1 litler wegthes 2 pounds so she should have been milking 11 pounds or so! (just a guess! Im not good at that kind of stuff!!)

[southerngurl]

Thanks wanna buy her? I think her udder is looking like it is gonna be a bad one!

You aren't a good salesman are you?

[HazyDay]

Originally Posted by southerngurl

You aren't a good salesman are you?

Well im not selling her as a show doe, more as a milker.

[pookshollow]

I think 1 litler wegthes 2 pounds so she should have been milking 11 pounds or so!

1 litre = 2.2 lbs (roughly) so she's giving 5 litres? 3.78 litres to the gallon, so closer to 1 1/3 gallons. 5 litres is decent, that's what my big Saanen gives at her peak.

Don't flame me please, but I've been told that a lot of Nubians don't have particularly good udders but they still produce milk. My only experience has been with my NubianX, and she has an 'orrible udder, (really nice teats and orifices though - she's the easiest one to milk ) - poor attachments, lopsided and meaty. I'm lucky to get 2 litres a day from her - but she grows out really big kids, so I'm breeding her Boer this year.

[southerngurl]

My nubian has a pretty nice udder. She is just an FF though. She doesn't have any arch to the top of it, comes to a point at the top, but nice texture, even, good sized, easy to milk teats. We'll see next year.

[HazyDay]

Originally Posted by pookshollow

Don't flame me please, but I've been told that a lot of Nubians don't have particularly good udders but they still produce milk. My only experience has been with my NubianX, and she has an 'orrible udder, (really nice teats and orifices though - she's the easiest one to milk ) - poor attachments, lopsided and meaty. I'm lucky to get 2 litres a day from her - but she grows out really big kids, so I'm breeding her Boer this year.

I won't! This doe I got from a friend who got her and saved her LIFE! she was at a place where they only fed them if they really wanted to. And was rasing a kid at less then 1 year old. She told me she got her and she was as thin as paper and her udder was so full the kid couldn't drink it all and it looked so painful! I felt so bad, so I got her thinking a few *pet* kids could be born. But then I wanted to show and now she is needing to be sold to make room for my 50% Reg and 75% Reg kids

I do see it also Nubians tend to have bad udders. But im breeding to fix that! All the show does around here have GREAT udders and im working at that!

I think the biggest thing wrong with her udder was 1. Genetic 2. Having some *person* who diddn't care about his/her animals!

I do think I have found 1 person who will buy her and will love her! even if her udder isn't the greatest!