Chicken/rabbit/goat 'barn'... ideas needed

[smwon]

I posted this in the “raising rabbits for profit” forum but thought I might post it here too. I live in the country BUT I have very little space.

I'm planning a new chicken/rabbit/goat pen. I plan to make a storage place w/doors above the rabbit cages. The bottom of the coop will be open (chicken wire around or maybe something stronger because of the goats) this way the chickens can see so they scratch every bit of the rabbit droppings and mix them with the bedding. Or if there was another way to make sure all corners are bright enough for the chickens to see to scratch around... I'd be open to some ideas. I want to make a small 'barn' of sorts. It will house six chickens, four rabbits (with one spare cage) and two Nigerian Dwarf does and a folding milk stand. The space I have to build this is small. A footprint of about 12’x 16’… this would include the yard. Any ideas would be very welcome.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you want a milk stand in the same area with rabbit and chicken poo.

[smwon]

I was thinking of separate stalls for the goats with a communal fenced area for the goats and chickens.

[cathleenc]

Did you bring this to the attention of the 10' x 10' house thread? Seems like a lot of those folks thrive on the challenge of how to maximize a little space. Try linking to this thread and asking for help.

gl!

[cathleenc]

this is the thread: Tiny House - 10 x 10??? 200 sq feet??? Off Grid

[Alice In TX/MO]

You have two different issues, at least. One is where they are during the days; the other is where they are when you milk. Here's my suggestions, based on my short experience. Realize, please, it's just my two centavos.

Day area: Although goats would like to have a place to get out of weather, most of the time they need to be out, browsing, playing, etc. It sounds to me like you don't really have enough outside space. I have a hard time thinking about goats being penned all the time and fed store bought feed instead of browsing. Goats don't need stalls, in my opinion. They need open area and a small shelter.

Milk barn/room: You need some place to milk that doesn't have chicken poo, goat poo, rabbit poo. You don't want to milk in a stall that has manure and flies in it. You need a place where you can sanitize the room. Just my opinion. I'm sure there's folks who have to make do on milking in less than desirable spots.

One of the factors in your plan is manure control. This is very critical because of worms and flies. Goats are subject to severe worm infestations, and keeping them in a confined area means you will have to do a lot of manure control. With those three critters in a small area, too, what are you planning to do to keep the flies down?

[cathleenc]

[QUOTE=Rose] Goats are subject to severe worm infestations, and keeping them in a confined area means you will have to do a lot of manure control. [QUOTE]

First, I do not have goats yet. I do have a stack of maybe 15 goat/livestock books on my table that I've been reading through like a banchee.

I've read that goats who do not browse and do not graze do not have worm problems because the worms cannot cycle without pasture and because the entire goat food source is going to be hays and concentrates. Not stuff where the worms are cycling. (edited to add: the goats most likely would need to be wormed before starting this new pasture-free lifestyle to knock down/kill pre-existing populations).

If you shovel and hose on a daily basis and then quick compost the manure might be doable. But finding the right number of animals to your ability to compost is going to be critical.

[Alice In TX/MO]

That is information that I have not seen, as I haven't been interested in keeping goats in such an environment. I'm very lucky to have room to let goats live as the Spirit intends.

My vet (who is a goat owner himself) told us that goats who are allowed to range over a large area have less worm problems than confined goats. So, there is a wide variety of experience and opinion.

Good luck with your goat/rabbit/chicken project!

[smwon]

Originally Posted by Rose

You have two different issues, at least. One is where they are during the days; the other is where they are when you milk. Here's my suggestions, based on my short experience. Realize, please, it's just my two centavos.

Day area: Although goats would like to have a place to get out of weather, most of the time they need to be out, browsing, playing, etc. It sounds to me like you don't really have enough outside space. I have a hard time thinking about goats being penned all the time and fed store bought feed instead of browsing. Goats don't need stalls, in my opinion. They need open area and a small shelter.

Milk barn/room: You need some place to milk that doesn't have chicken poo, goat poo, rabbit poo. You don't want to milk in a stall that has manure and flies in it. You need a place where you can sanitize the room. Just my opinion. I'm sure there's folks who have to make do on milking in less than desirable spots.

One of the factors in your plan is manure control. This is very critical because of worms and flies. Goats are subject to severe worm infestations, and keeping them in a confined area means you will have to do a lot of manure control. With those three critters in a small area, too, what are you planning to do to keep the flies down?

Hi Rose… first I want to thank you very much for your input.

I agree, IF I had the space it would be much better to let them browse then to keep them confined. I don’t of course, have the space to do that. The alternative is to buy my milk and milk products from some one else and I don’t want to do that. So I am going to be using the zero graze method. I do intend to take them for walks to let them graze down by the river. And when I can’t, I will have other vegetation for them.

As for the milking situation… if the goats have adequate bedding and the chickens keep the bedding mixed, there is very little smell and flies. There is no harm in milking a goat in this situation. The milk stand will fold up against the wall so the chickens will not be roosting on it and no manure will get on it. John Seymour's point of view was…

“That is bowing down too far to the great god hygiene. If you keep your cow in a house for all or part of the time and throw in plenty dry straw, bracken, or other bedding, every day, the dung will slowly build up and you will have the most magnificent muck. Your local Dairy Officer will excommunicate you if you milk your cows in such a house and you would certainly not be allowed to sell milk or any milk product in any so-called civilized place; but in fact the milk you get from such a cow milked on ‘deep litter’ will be as clean as any milk in the world, provided you observe the other rules of hygiene. We milked our cows for eight years like this, cleaned the muck out about once a year, and the cows were indoors at night in the winter. Our milk, butter and cheese were perfect”

That would apply to goats as well and they won’t produce even a fraction as much manure as cows. The chickens will share the goat yard, but the stalls will be for the goats alone.

The chickens would help keep the flies down. I’ve kept my chickens and rabbits and goats something like this before… I just had more room and I had full size goats… Nigerians are very small… about the size of a Labrador Retriever. The milk I got was very good and the chickens were mingled with the goats. No off flavors either…

The goats would need to be wormed regularly… but with a closed system there shouldn’t be too much problems with worms. Of course they would be exposed to what ever the ground has when I go for walks and let them browse. However, a mixture of animals helps keep the worms under control.

[Wannabee]

We DO have goats, rabbitts, and chickens all in the same barn. (and cats). We let the cats do whatever they want. The chickens have a coop, but they free range during the day and go home naturally at night. They go through the goat pen at their liesure. Since we made this move about 6 months ago, you won't believe the increase in Egg production! It is unbelievebale - we pay less money in chicken feed and get more eggs!

The rabbitts are in hutches. The goats don't seem to mind the chickens at all, and the chickens are always there to get the grain that spills over...

We are talking only 8 chickens and 10 goats, but it has worked out well. But, I need to say, these are boer goats, not milk goats. If I was milking for human consumption, I probably would not do it in the same are, just my preferrence I suppose....

[smwon]

Thanks for your input Wannabee...

[Laura Workman]

One thing that is going to be tricky is controlling ammonia and dust. The ammonia will come when the bedding gets too wet. The dust, lots of it, will come when the bedding is too dry. Throw chicken scratch on the bedding, and if it's too dry, pour water on it. Properly moistened and stirred up, and with enough carbon added, it will compost beautifully and provide a healthy environment, but it is a tricky thing to balance.

[jen74145]

I had a couple Nigie doelings in with a few hens and rabbits (in hutches)... had to let the hens eat what they wanted then pck up the feed bowls or the goats would pig out and bloat. Then too we had an evil hen who liked to peck little goats in the eye and go after them. She was gone before morning, nasty tempered thing.

Just keep it dry, and sheter your chicken waterers; little goats like to play on top of them and knock them over, just to spite you.

[HazyDay]

I heard that Chicken or Rabbit marune can cause a diease! Not sure if it's true.Thats why our Hens are kept far away from the goats. And like wise!

[smwon]

Originally Posted by jen74145

I had a couple Nigie doelings in with a few hens and rabbits (in hutches)... had to let the hens eat what they wanted then pck up the feed bowls or the goats would pig out and bloat. Then too we had an evil hen who liked to peck little goats in the eye and go after them. She was gone before morning, nasty tempered thing.

Just keep it dry, and sheter your chicken waterers; little goats like to play on top of them and knock them over, just to spite you.

Oh... well I want the chickens in their own pen, but with access to the other pens and yard. The goats won't be able to get in and eat the chicken or rabbit feed.

Ya, that hen would go in the stew pot very quickly for sure.

Originally Posted by HazyDay

I heard that Chicken or Rabbit marune can cause a diease! Not sure if it's true.Thats why our Hens are kept far away from the goats. And like wise!

That may be so if proper hygiene and practices are not used. But mostly I don't think I need to worry about it.

[smwon]

Originally Posted by Laura Jensen

One thing that is going to be tricky is controlling ammonia and dust. The ammonia will come when the bedding gets too wet. The dust, lots of it, will come when the bedding is too dry. Throw chicken scratch on the bedding, and if it's too dry, pour water on it. Properly moistened and stirred up, and with enough carbon added, it will compost beautifully and provide a healthy environment, but it is a tricky thing to balance.

I don't plan to water the bedding. Change it a couple times a year, but not water it. The chickens will keep it mixed and therefore dry. Also if wet spots develop it is important to throw dry bedding on the wet spots to keep it dry and to keep the flies down. Dust won't be to much of a problem, but chickens love dust to take dust baths which help keep lice under control. I suppose the bedding will be ‘moist’ from the rabbit and the goat pee… but it should not even come close to being wet. Not in this kind of setup anyway. A regular compost would need to be kept moister than the bedding in the pens. When I change the bedding it will go into a regular compost bin and be finished composted that way.

Anyone have ideas for the plans for a setup like this??? I already know the pros and cons of keeping them all together like this.

[smwon]

Originally Posted by cathleenc

Did you bring this to the attention of the 10' x 10' house thread? Seems like a lot of those folks thrive on the challenge of how to maximize a little space. Try linking to this thread and asking for help.

gl!

Thanks, I will do that!

[Freeholder]

When we lived in Alaska, I kept goats, chickens (and a pair of geese), and rabbits in a 12' X 16' shed. The rabbit cages were across one end (12'). Next to them on the long wall was the door. On the other side of the door, at the front of the building, was the 8' square goat pen (two Alpine does). And across the back was a long, thin poultry pen. Now I think I would just put the rabbits up high in the poultry pen, and have the rest of the space around the door for the feed and so on (the feed cans were outside the front door). We used plywood for the divider between the goats and poultry, and didn't have too much dust in the 'foyer'. You could put a porch on and have the milking stand out there, if dust is a concern. If the bedding is kept clean, and there is good ventilation, then your animals should be healthy.

Kathleen

[smwon]

Thanks Kathleen... that was the sort of thing I was looking for. I think I have found a plan that will work.