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Old 09/12/07, 08:08 AM
clara
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hermaphrodite goat?

Hi, ca n anybody tell me whether there is a way of telling if an adult she-goat is a hermaphrodite BEFORE attempting to breed her? I have a big doe (I mean REALLY big - stocky) aged two who, apart from having footballer's thighs and chest, huge feet and horns, behaves very aggressively towards the others, often trying to mount them even when none of them should be in heat. I have put her on leaner rations but she seems to get bigger on those as well - I meant to get her back to normal shape before breeding, but as she is a real problem (can't be put with the other girls so managing the herd when buck comes along is going to be a pain in the ***) I was wondering whether it was WORTHWHILE breeding her - is she going to be a good milker, masculine as she is? Is she going to get pregnant, anyway? What about her possible offspring? I will add she is not a purebred but a grade doe - she was given to me a few months ago and no-one knew about her dam and sire.

Grateful for any advice!!

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Old 09/12/07, 08:23 AM
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From what I have gathered, if she has horns, it's very unlikely that she is a hermaphrodite. That usually results from a mating of two polled (naturally hornless) goats.

There was a thread a few months ago, with some good pictures of the genitals of a hermaphrodite goat. Have a look at your girl - does her vulva look the same as the other does, or does she have a projecting nub at the bottom? You can also do an internal exam - if she's a hermaphrodite, her vagina will be very short (wear sterile exam gloves and use lubricant )

I have a doe that is definitely not a hermaphrodite, but she gets "bucky" and mounts other does, mostly when she herself is in heat, but sometimes when they are.

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Old 09/12/07, 09:26 AM
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Here are pics of the hermaphrodite I had born here this year. Not all are quite as obvious but this is what she looks like.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/sho...d.php?t=187322

I will be butchering her soon.

Are your does teats plainly visible or smaller than normal??

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Old 09/12/07, 09:29 AM
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LOL I was trying to find that thread you had Emily. I did with by name since Nutrageous stuck with me. I had just copied the link and went to paste it.
I know so many of us went and checked all of our goats after you posted those pix.

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Old 09/12/07, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaiblue12
LOL I was trying to find that thread you had Emily. I did with by name since Nutrageous stuck with me. I had just copied the link and went to paste it.
I know so many of us went and checked all of our goats after you posted those pix.
LOL, I know I did!!

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Old 09/12/07, 01:13 PM
 
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I had one that had an incomplete repro tract. When you looked up her, there was nothing but a 1.5" blind channel -- it was just long enough for her to urinate like a doe. She also had a bucky looking head, and teeny teats -- like the size of a pencil tip eraser. Those teats are a dead giveaway, and very obvious next to a normal doe.

I'd take this doe and put her in a stanchion and see if you can get a speculum in her. If you can take a look in there, you can see if she has a complete tract or a cervix. No cervix, no babies ;-)

We had ours butchered for salami, and I took at look at her tract when we pulled it out. There were no ovaries, no uterus, and no testicles that I could find.

Tracy

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Old 09/12/07, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy in Idaho
We had ours butchered for salami, and I took at look at her tract when we pulled it out. Tracy
Thats what I intend to do in the next week or so. Should be intereresting.
I have had pictures requested by some on the list here so I will get a second party to take pictures when I butcher the hermie.
Mine also has developed a buckier head and neck with a beard much fuller than any of her female peers. And tiny, tiny teats with no udder. Looks like a banded wether but with no scar where the scrotum used to be. She has gotten stranger looking as she got older.
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Old 09/12/07, 02:10 PM
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I have a little half nubian half boer doe. Shes got a small beard too. But she also had twins this spring..

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Old 09/12/07, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cayenne47
I have a little half nubian half boer doe. Shes got a small beard too. But she also had twins this spring..
Many does have beards, its not just a buck thing. But this hermie of mine is only 8 months old and has a full buck beard...and none of her female peers do. Its just one more thing that contributes to make her look very "bucky" in the neck and head area.
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Old 09/12/07, 02:55 PM
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It's funny - I have two Alpines, a doe and a wether. The doe has a beard, the wether has none!

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Old 09/12/07, 04:12 PM
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Fat also stores incrediable amounts of estrogen, so some of this behavior is simply her dominance over the other does. When you do get in a buck she will be the perfect companion for him, not only will he run some of her fat off, but if she can be bred he will breed her. If he blows semen all over her thighs than she has an imcomplete vagina which of the kinds of "hemaphrodites" and this really isn't what most goats are, it is more common. Hemaphrodites have overert multiple gentailia. Udder and penis, or vulva and testicles. Intersex or free martins are the ones we guess about. The finger up the vagina test and the teats small like playtex nursers are really the best tests if you don't AI or don't want to spend money on ultrasound. She will make wonderful sausage though. Vicki

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  #12  
Old 09/12/07, 04:28 PM
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I don't know about the vulva though. I looked ate the pics last time and was not convinced. I have a number of does who have the very same looking vulva. Instead of the flattened ones in the resty of the thread. Mine have had kids and milk regularly. So that is not always a good indicater. I would hate to think someone might cull aperfectly good doe just on the protruding vulva.
I would post pics but no camera.

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Old 09/12/07, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steff bugielski
I don't know about the vulva though. I looked ate the pics last time and was not convinced. I have a number of does who have the very same looking vulva. Instead of the flattened ones in the resty of the thread. Mine have had kids and milk regularly. So that is not always a good indicater. I would hate to think someone might cull aperfectly good doe just on the protruding vulva.
I would post pics but no camera.
No, I would never cull one *just because she had a vulva* like the one in my hermie thread.....but if you have one like mine you'll be in no doubt that it *is* a hermie. She doesn't look or act like a doe. The vulva is just an external sign that told me I was thinking rightly about her.
By the way, this hermie has been living with two young bucks since June. She has never come in heat, not once. They use her like they use each other, but it is obvious she is not a doe.
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  #14  
Old 09/12/07, 05:44 PM
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To Clara, the original poster. I have a friend who had a doe like you describe. Masculine, HUGE, bucky, the works. Was 2-1/2 and had never bred. My friend ran her with the bucks even. My friend accidently gave her *4 times* the regular dosage of Bo-Se that fall and she bred! She had triplets from that pregnancy. Two bucks and a doeling who was never right and was put down(she had something wrong with her backend). I ended up with her right after that, when I ended up with this friends entire herd when she was having some troubles. From then on that doe was a nightmare to try to keep thin. She didn't milk very well and even on a diet of grass hay built up fat reserves like you'd never believe. She bred for me, but only concieved one kid each time(granted, they were does). And still never milked very well. Then she foundered on a weight-losers diet! She is now back at the friends, mainly for old times sake. She is still on a diet and still fat. She would have been better off if she had been made into sausage when she wouldn't breed.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe its best if your doe doesn't breed?? Could be that it just might be better for her to be a pet or a buck companion or sausage.
I have an Alpine yearling right now. She didn't breed as a doeling. Came in heat, but didn't breed. I ran her with the Boer herd all year so that she wouldn't get fat and I could keep her cheaply. I have seen no sign of heats this year at all, even though she has been with the buck since July. I'll give her till this coming spring when I am sure she is still not pregnant....then I am going to butcher her. I guess I figure if with all the proper nutrition, Bo-Se, minerals, etc, she can't breed like the rest of the herd, she is too much trouble to spend more trying to get her to breed.

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