lutalyse dose requested

[Jcran]

If lutalyse dose says 1 ml/100# would that dosage hold true for goats? I've got a 5 month old, approx 65 lb. boer doeling who may have been bred on way home from fair. Just an IM shot in her back leg? I've never given lutalyse before. Yep, I'm going to be soooooooooooooooooooo careful!

[Patty0315]

I do 2cc's

[susanne]

joan it is 2cc no matter the weight and you can give it sc. timing is also important. the best would be day 10 after she is bred. watch for your bucks as she will likely come into heat two days after the lute.

[Jcran]

Its been almost a month since we came home from fair (Aug 12)...will this cause problems?

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

All hormones are an IM shot, in fact if you don't give a good deep muscle IM shot it can not work at times. You want to wait until after implantation so 14 days at least. So now is fine. IF you have not seen her in heat since the fair and it's been 21 days she is bred. Vicki

[susanne]

if lutalyse is given on the tenth day after breeding, it kills the corpus luteum (responsible for producing progesterone to keep the pregnancy) and prevents the fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus.
day 14 the egg is about to implant in the uterus. it takes longer for a goat to heal, the longer you wait to abort the pregnancy.
since lutalyse is readily absorbed through the skin, which is why pregnant women should be extremely careful with this powerful hormone, it works just fine given sc.

this information is from an A.I class that was given by dvm lee ann berglund-fosdick at the adga convention 2006.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

This is exactly what I mean Susanne, if I bother you soo much please ignore what I post. You went to a class, I have used lute for years on hundreds of goats, as has everyone I know, and we give the 2cc IM, and use all hormones IM.

10 days, 14 days what is the difference? Longer to heal...it's an abortion dear no matter what, the whole lining of the uterus sloughs, not just the kids.....Vicki

[chamoisee]

Well....I didn't know it should be given IM. That explains why it didn't always work for me, I was consistently doing it sub Q.

Timing, I have done it up to four months along, which IMHO, was too far. The goat did OK (she even came into milk!) but she mourned the lost kid, and it was visible, I had to dispose of it. The earlier ones seemed to do just fine.

[susanne]

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

This is exactly what I mean Susanne, if I bother you soo much please ignore what I post. You went to a class, I have used lute for years on hundreds of goats, as has everyone I know, and we give the 2cc IM, and use all hormones IM.

10 days, 14 days what is the difference? Longer to heal...it's an abortion dear no matter what, the whole lining of the uterus sloughs, not just the kids.....Vicki

i didn't even talk to you.only wanted to clarify my information and where it comes from. i think you really need to leave me alone. and don't think you can intimidate me with you private e-mails. might work with others, not with me.

[susanne]

Originally Posted by chamoisee

Well....I didn't know it should be given IM. That explains why it didn't always work for me, I was consistently doing it sub Q.

Timing, I have done it up to four months along, which IMHO, was too far. The goat did OK (she even came into milk!) but she mourned the lost kid, and it was visible, I had to dispose of it. The earlier ones seemed to do just fine.

i'm sure in some cases it is harder to abort a pregnancy, the longer it is going.
of course the uterus lining has to slough off as it does with every normal cycle. the difference is the amount of blood that is needed to clean out, because if the pregnancy progress, the lining is much thicker, and the later the abortion, one year for a kid might be lost.
i'm not saying one is wrong or right.

[chamoisee]

Oh, they all recovered fine and bred back if it was still breeding season. That wasn't the problem. I usually luted at about a month to six weeks along, and some of them gave birth anyway. I'm thinking that my dosage (IIRC it was 2CCs or method (SQ) didn't work.

[susanne]

in this case the lutalyse was given when the fertilized egg was already implanted. it is true, i have not used lutalyse this much. i had an accidental breeding two years ago, and used the 2cc lutalyse sc on two does on the tenth day. two days later they both came in heat and where bred the following heat.
three weeks ago, i had a buck visiting the doe pen. next morning i noted the sign on four does he obviously bred, that i had other plans. they all got lutalyse on the tenth day and they all came in heat after two days. they will be bred their next heat cycle with the buck i planned.
i have no experience with aborting a doe that truly is pregnant.

may i ask why you waited so long to give the lutalyse?

[chamoisee]

Waited so long on the doe who was four months along, or the others? On the doe who was 4 months preggers, I had no transportation, couldn't drive. It took me that long to get to the vet's office. The others, I always wait until they are at least a month along, to make sure it will work because I do know that doing it right after they're bred, won't...from experience.

Like Vicki, I had scads of goats, as many as 60+ at a time. I have lutelysed a lot of does. I wish I had known about doing it in the muscle...it would have saved me a year's work in soem cases, and throwing away a kid crop I could have salvaged otherwise.

[Jcran]

Well, the best explanation would be simple stupid-id-ity...I started back to work within 10 days after the exposure to the buckling and just got so inundated so quickly that it was the last thing on my mind. Once I started the fertility process on my Dexter cow,and went and bought the lutalyse, I realized we hadn't addressed the doeling's issue. So tonight we're going to do the doeling which will put her out about 28 days.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Back before all the information on hypocalcemia was well known, and we were treating ketosis...which meant aborting the doe, we knew we had to abort or we couldn't save her and her lactation, the kids wouldn't be viable on propolyn glycol, subq hydration, and oral CMPK...we could barely keep the doe alive. So I aborted the does, their lactation being aborted at 100 days bred was never that of what it would have been had she kidded, but she was alive and milking even though it was a loss of kids.

A doe who is truly bred, aborts in 24 to 36 hours after the shot, she is not in heat. She then will come back into heat if it is during breeding season in 21 days naturally. Vicki

[susanne]

that is correct.

although a doe is bred, i would not say a doe is truly pregnant if the egg is not implanted yet.
i also understand that this was not the question, so never mind.