does any one not vax or worm?

[rainbowmoon]

is this common or not. it seems the norm here but some other people I talk to (different folks) say they have never heard of getting tetanus for goats and don't worm either. what's the deal? can someone help a newbie?

[mygoat]

One of the first things you'll find out with the goat world is that there are very few people who are properly knowledgable about goatkeeping. A whole lot of people that have goats are ignorant about their care.

Some people don't vaccinate because they want as natural as a raising as possible... That's not ignorance it's a choice. However, I will always vaccinate because a bottle of 20 doses is like 5.00 or so.

With worming, it needs to be done. If they've never done it I can't imagine what the goat's look like... they can't have had goats more than a few years to never have a problem not worming. Ick.

Good luck!

[cathleenc]

April,
first, I have NO real life experience yet. Still in the reading and researching stage so again, NO experience here.

I have found/read about using foods with a high anti-worm quality, like wormwood (artemsia) and foods with high copper values plus homepathic treatments to keep the worms under a 200 count. Supposedly under 200 is okay not to worm. Also, proper pasture rotation and putting poultry in the 'resting fields' that the ruminants just moved out of is supposed to help keep worm cycles/problems to a minimum.

I would love to have a purely organic, non-chemical approach to livestock management. But not at the cost of suffering animals. If y ou find great info to help those of us who seek a minimal use of chemicals - please share.

best wishes,
Cathy
(again, I have NO experience.)

[DocM]

Using homepathic and organic methods of management is acceptable - see the fiasco farm site - their animals get a very limited amount of vaccinations and chemical worming. I wonder though if the original poster isn't referring to owners who simply stick goats out on brush and be done with it - that isn't management, that's neglect, and I doubt their animals have a long life expectancy or good milk/meat production. It's pretty common around here with backyard nanny/billy herds.
http://fiascofarm.com/goats/

[rainbowmoon]

no I am talking about people who have raised goats for years and never vaxed for tetanus or wormed. apparently they have had no problems (this is coming from 2 different sources)

thanks for the link! I will check it out!

[rainbowmoon]

btw how often do you worm your goats? my one goat (dwarf) was wormed on Aug 17th. the other (mini) I have no idea. will I be able to get them on a schedule together? I think I am going to worm but I am leary about vaxes.

[DocM]

It could simply mean that in your area, worm loads are historically low, and they've been lucky. You seem higher worm loads in areas that have wet seasons. It's possibly the same with tetanus.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

You live in hot arid Arizona. You likely have vets who don't even carry tetanus antitoxin for their practice. You have no worm burdens because you are not humid.

Closely reading most 'organic' type folks they do worm with chemicals, some more than I do.

Wormwood is abortive so there is 5 months out of the year plus the withdrawal time you can't use this in wormers.

Totally organic in your climate can certainly be done, it can be done anywhere if you are willing to take the hit with a much higher mortality rate. There is no pasture rotation when you never have a kill of parsites in the original pasture because we don't freeze....so we are compaing apples and oranges here. Other than when you purchase stock, you likely would never have to worm or cocci treat your goats as long as you fecal checked now and then, especially after kidding and weaning, and kept your place clean. Vicki

[rainbowmoon]

thanks for the info vicky & docm! very helpful!

I have not seen our vet since I got the goats (he is a ranch vet though and will come out to the house)

would using DE for worming be acceptable?

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

For you, yes because you don't have worms Vicki

[rainbowmoon]

I hate to ask another dumb question but how do I know if they do get worms? what are the signs? or will you just see it in the poop?

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

The only worms you can see in the poop are tapes, you can sometimes see pinworms around the anus, but these are of no consequence to goats, only to us because we don't like seeing parasites.

Fecal sample, my vet only charges $10, you just take in 7 freshly pooped pellets, pick them up immediatly using a ziplock for a glove...refridgerate, or go to the vet immediatly. Or use saanendoah.com to learn to fecal it's easy. Vicki

[rainbowmoon]

oh great, thanks for the info. you have been super helpful!

[Jim S.]

I do not vaccinate. I do worm, on an as-needed basis, preferring to spot-worm and use FAMACHA rather than whole-herd worm. I may whole herd-worm if natural conditions are right for worm blooms. That's usually in late spring here.

Been at it 17 years this way. No worries.