Balloon teats. Should I breed this doe again?

[Jillis]

Actually, there are two of them. They are a Nupine, and a mostly Nubian cross.

Both of them have LOTS of milk. But they have these udders that are like 2 footballs joined like Siamese twins and their teats balloon out severely. It makes for sloppy milking.

I was wondering if I bred both or either of them to my Nigerian Dwarf buck, would their babies show improvement in the shape of their udders, the attachments and the teats? He comes from championship stock, really good lines, and the babies I have from him are outstanding in their conformation. Just beautiful babies, all mini crosses except for the ones that were born to a Nigie doe I sold.

Their production is way above average, but I can sell them back to farm I bought them from as babies. He is looking for more milkers right now.

Advice, experts?

Thanks! Jill.

[susanne]

jillis i bet those two does also having a very soft udder texture?
next time you breed them i would use a buck with tight texture. when they are kidding put a teat tape around the teat to give a little bit support. this will help to hold them in shape.
you still can milk with the tape around but would change the tape every day.
if they are well in their lactation and the peak is over you can stop the tape.

[Feral Nature]

Yes, you can breed them to the Nigie and they would have improved udders IF he comes from better stock than they are and if the genes line up right. Then, you may still get offspring that have a tendacy to blow out teats like the mom. But if you do use the Nigie buck and then watch his daughters udders and keep them milked out and don't allow them to blow, then they won't get like the moms.

As far as the original owner buying back the does because he needs milkers, how will he milk your 2 does with the blown out teats? Are they small enough to fit into a machine or do you expect him to milk them by hand? Will they get the kind of care they need with this problem in a dairy with many more goats to look after?

[Jillis]

I think part of the problem is that they were engorged with milk for several weeks before giving birth. Their udders were HUGE. One gave birth to a singleton, and the other to twins. One is much worse than the other. The one that isn't too bad is one of my favorite does. Her daughter is one I am keeping, she is the sweetest little lady you ever met. I love the way she just carresses her mom with her head. Very sweet, gentle and feminine, and a little funny, too, when another doe gets annoyed and does that "butt the baby" thing she dances circles around them like "Catch me if you can!"

BUT---I bred this doe to the buck I owned from championship Alpine lines. His dam produced 20 lbs a day at peak on her first freshening!!! When this little doeling freshens, is she going to have an udder bigger than her entire body???
Considering her mother's capacity (which I had no way of knowing when I bred her, since she is a first freshener) and her grand-dam on her father's side...oy!

[susanne]

jillis when this doe kid starts to bag up, you can put tape around the teats. if the udder is so full you also can, and probably need, to release something before she kids. after she kidded you need to milk her out a couple of times per, until the udder can take the capacity (until after her peak?). those will never be show goats but wow, what good producer

[dkdairygoats]

In my experience, most doe kids have udders much like their dams. A few will be somewhat improved, but you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. You have to figure out what you're breeding for....milk or show or both? I personally would not breed them but if you just want the milk, then not such a big deal. Just don't expect too much from the doe kids....chances are their udders will be carbon copies of their dams'.

[ozark_jewels]

A really good udder buck(or teat buck), can *dramatically* improve doelings in just one generation. But he must really click with your does genetics and there is no way of knowing until you freshen the daughters. Up to you.

[APPway]

Years ago we had a Lamancha doe that we bought that we called bubble Teats because of the same problem. We bred her to a great Udder buck that was known for producing great kids. well she had 2 beautiful doe kids That had nice udders The Buck was a Clovertop Buck.
I would breed her as you know that she has a weak udder and can watch the kids for what you seen on her.
It was said above that the udders would be carbon copies of the dams udder.
I wish that was the case because I would just have to get a doe with a great udder and bred her and have nothing but wonderful udders,

[susanne]

Originally Posted by APPway

I wish that was the case because I would just have to get a doe with a great udder and bred her and have nothing but wonderful udders,

wouldn't that be easy?

[Jillis]

Thank you so much for all your input.

My goals are changing, and I know I need to downsize even more than I have. But I still want to breed my 2 "bubble teats" to my Nigie buck. I want production plus the creamy sweetness of Nigie milk---high butterfat and protein makes it ideal for both drinking and cheesemaking.

However, I may just sell them anyway. All of my goats seem to be high producers. Maybe I feed them too well. They are very spoiled babies. Very nice girls. It is hard to choose who to part with.

Thanks again. I keep learning and learning from this forum.

Blessings, JIll!

[APPway]

Jillis
Do you have Pictures of the does and of their udders
alot of people might not know what you mean by Bubble Teats
Also as family milkers they would be good.
The one I talked about in the last post lived with me until she was 8 and then I sold her to a family for a family milker as I had to many of her kids and grand and great grand kids.
Donèt give up on them as the udder can be improved

[chamoisee]

I would sell them if they were mine, but then, I dam raise, and I don't want the hassles of struggling to get the kids to be able to nurse on something many times bigger than what their mouths can grasp. But then, I wouldn't want to milk that either.....

It depends on your goals. My deal is that the teats *must* be easy to grasp and milk. They don't have to be perfect (1 1/2 " long is OK), but they can't cause the goat or I pain. My other thing is that the goats have got to be able to raise their kids- mothering ability, etc etc, in order for me to keep them, even if I will not be dam raising. You never know what might happen, the stuff could hit the fan this winter, or someone could get laid up, and I may not be able to bottle feed. I need to know that should the situation arise, the does could all feed their own kids.

These are my issues, but they may not be yours. I have seen substantial improvements in teat size in just a single generation from the right buck. I don't think it is breed related so much as it is the right buck within the breed.

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by APPway

Jillis
Do you have Pictures of the does and of their udders

Yeah, I'd like to see how bad they are. Leaving it to the imagination is painful!

[goatkid]

Which goats to keep and which to cull depends on the needs of your farm. If you don't show and need lots of milk, I'd keep the ones making the most milk, so long as they aren't too difficult to milk. On the other hand, If you show, do linear appraisal or wish to breed show quality stock, I'd cull the ones that lack conformation. It is possible to breed up, using the right bucks. I bought a doe out of a really nice dam, but she had a pendulous udder with little teat deliniation. I kept a daughter that had a nicer udder and sold the mom to a dairy. This doe produced a flashy daughter, but she didn't have an udder I want in my herd so I sold her as a family milker. Her yearling daughter has a really nice udder. I'm keeping her and her doe kid. This is 4 generations before I got a doe I really like. She went champion at our county fair this year.

[Jillis]

I haven't got time to post pictures. I am on dialup and just uploading them to photobucket takes a year and a day.

One of the does IS nursing a doeling on the milkstand...I am about to wean her completely now. This is a baby whose mother I sold, but I kept her twins because they are just beautiful little minis. Her twin took the bottle immediately but after 3 days of trickling milk into her sister and replacing chewed up nipples, I decided to let her nurse this doe on the milkstand.

It takes her a few tries to get that thing in her mouth but then she does okay.

I use the Udderly EZ milker, just because I like a contained system. I end up handmilking the remainder, though. It isn't impossible to mik them, just sloppy. I like the feeling of a firm teat with a little udder tissue under my palm on top. On these girls I let the milk fill the balloon and them gently press it out of the balloon. It is just a little harder to control the squirt direction, too, so I get a little wet on my pants legs or shirt, too.

I do not show and never intend to. The Nupine is still nursing her daughter. I plan to move the babies up the hill this week. I really delayed it because she and her daughter are so sweet together, I just haven't had the heart.

Thanks again. Jill.

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by Jillis

I haven't got time to post pictures. I am on dialup and just uploading them to photobucket takes a year and a day.

Hey, if you would send a couple or few pics to ozark_jewels@yahoo.com I'll be glad to photobucket and load them here!