Copper Bolusing Help?

[LomahAcres]

We're having a lot copper related problems in our herd this year, and I am unable to find a mineral locally that has more then 1500 ppm of copper in it. They have been on this for a while, and I have seen improvements, but not enough, so I have decided to bolus.

I am using the Copasure from Jeffers, in the 12.5 gram size pill, and am having trouble figuring out what size (empty) capsule to use? Most the goats being treated weight 100 - 150 #'s. I would really like to be able to treat with only one capsule per goat, is this possible?

I've been looking at this site:
http://www.u-sayranch.com/goats/copper.html
Which suggest that 1 gram per 22 lbs is the correct dosage, and the "000" size pill will hold 4 grams?

But then I saw this site:
http://www.torpac.com/Reference/unlinked_size_chart.htm
Which would suggest that the "000" capsule would only hold about 1 gram. And I would then need a 13 or 12 size capsules to be able to treat in one dose?

I do have a gram scale and will weight out accordingly and I understand these are general weights and different substances weight differently, but as I am most likely to order online I am just wondering what size will work? What size do you all use, and how big are your goats in comparison? And also, where do you purchase yours?

Secondly,
I am unclear how the actual bolusing is done. I understand the goat needs to swallow the capsule whole in order for them to work. I also do have a balling gun. But I am wondering how far back in the throat I need to go, aim to the side? center? Any good websites with a pictorial guide?

I also read that some people would drench with a liquid (water, Gatorade etc.), or drench a liquid after the initial bolusing, saying the goat would swallow better/easier? Any one try this?

Basically, I am wanting step by step in the actual act of bolusing that you find works well for you. I realize I will most likely just need to come up with my own method, and may have several trials and errors, but I thought I'd see what works well for other people, and get a better idea.

Thanks for any input.

[cseger1]

Get the 13 capsules - they will do all of your goats. (at one per goat) we get them from valleyvet.com

When you make the capsules, make at least 2 per goat. Put them into baggies with the goats' names and weights. You WILL ruin a couple the first time and having extras is handy. If you have a really bad doe (we have one) she will ruin more than two - you can dip into the supply for a goat that weighs about the same but who is not such a pain. .

You have to stick the bolus gun in pretty far -- way back to the throat. We shoot it in and massage it down while holding the mouth closed - like with a dog.

You'll know if it goes down - you'll see and feel it. If it doesn't, cup your hand under the mouth and let them spit it out ASAP. Try again. If they chew it up, it's ruined. If they just move it around in their mouth it gets soggy and then gummy and then ruined.

We do it as a two-man operation - one straddles and holds the head, the other mans the bolus gun. It is a pain, but not as bad as it sounds. Some does are great and take it right away - some will spit it out 5, 10 times.

That's all I can think of right now. We've only done it once, 7 goats. Made a HUGE improvement in coat and skin. Simply amazing and totally worth the trouble.

[jerryf]

I have been thinking of giving my Boer goats a copper bolus as assurance they are getting their copper...I do keep loose Goat Mineral out for them.

I went to Valley Vet They have Copasure boluses. States one bolus per 150-500 pound animal.
I do not understand the decision on capsules? Just give them a bolus, right?
Jerry

[LomahAcres]

Originally Posted by jerryf

I have been thinking of giving my Boer goats a copper bolus as assurance they are getting their copper...I do keep loose Goat Mineral out for them.

I went to Valley Vet They have Copasure boluses. States one bolus per 150-500 pound animal.
I do not understand the decision on capsules? Just give them a bolus, right?
Jerry

I think that dosage is for cows, the pill size is 12.5 grams, and they say the dosage for goats is 1 gram per 22 lbs. So 12.5 grams would treat a 275# goat. My goats aren't that big, So I'm breaking it down and can treat almost 2 goats with one pill (needing 2 smaller sized capsules for dosing, as the rods need to be swallowed whole).

[DocM]

Most places sell huge quantities of gel caps and so unless you want 1000, you're out of luck. The 13's are way too big for my little does (under a year). The hardship in trying to cram them in and going through 4 or 5 sloppy caps isn't worth it. I want to amazon.com and simply searched for all sizes as per the usay site. I was able to buy small bags (100 caps) in each size very cheap. It's just easier to have the right equipment to do the job.

[Sweet Goats]

You can get the empty capsuls at about any store. I have seen Walmart carry them, but I get mine at the health food store. I buy the 00 size. I use more capsuls that way but they are smaller and the goats do not have as much trouble swollowing them.
I also got the gun that is stainlss and it has a cleat plastic tube at the end. They can be put a little farther in the mouth, and shen the goats bite it with their back teeth, they will not ruin it. I was going to get a hard plactic one but they said that once a goat bites down on it and bends it, then it really is no good because it will cutthe goats mouth. If that is true or not, I bought the other one ans it works great.