What do you think?

[jerryf]

I have 6 Full Blood Boer doelings - one born 12-1-06 five born 1-22-07 I let them nurse their dams till they were 6 months old. (buck kids were weaned at 3 months) They had access to a creep where I fed them by hand a 16% grain mix twice a day and alflafa hay. They have never had a hungry day.they are growing well--being fed well in a lot--they never had to scratch out a living on dry pasture ( we are in a drought)

They are huge and by July they weighed in at 90-100 pounds. They all had 2 strong heats and on 7-17-07 ( just before their 3rd heat) I turned in an agressive young buck in rut. He followed each one and courted her, I saw stained on the doe's upper back from his stained front legs. I assume he bred them. I watched bery close but I never saw him breed- it appears he is a night breeder-
OK I did that to have them kid just after the main doe herd---- one nice group of kids to wean.
They will kid at 11 to 11 1/2 months old.
I had two other 12 month old does kid this June. They are nice sized, kidded unassisted and are raising very nice kids

Now I am second guessing my decision.
Is that too young? Alot of producers wait to kid for the first time at 15-16 months old. .
Should I lutalyse them and wait to breed them? Or just let them kid?

Jerry

[chris30523]

I have decided to wait and breed mine the following season. The goats I am having trouble with this year were all of my young mothers. Mine are Boers and crosses. They were 90 to 100 lbs when they were bred and just have not put on much growth since. All of them have had some sort of trouble with worms this year and I even lost one. Mine are well fed also .I have been talking to a Boer Grower that has been at this a long time and she says if you wait they grow better ,are better moms, have more resistance, and live longer lives.She also only breeds once a year .

[Jim S.]

Jerry, as long as they were 75% of the size of their mamas when bred, you will be fine. I follow what I followed when I had cows. It's not about age, it's about frame size compared to the mother. Works for me.

Economically, I can't do the grain feeding and the once a year breeding and make any money. Feeding them up too much actually hinders breeding.

The SA Boer Assn. has a new booklet of field-proven guidelines on conformational qualities that denote a good mother. You might check those out. They were just published in "Goat Rancher."

[Jcran]

Last year, our judge at county fair said that boers are meant to be bred at 80-100 pounds...that waiting, for some goats, allows them to get too fat. I've got friends who wait until following year. I've used the 80+pounds route and had no problems. However, I've got a young doeling who's been accidentally bred. IF I don't lutalyse, she'll kid at about 11 months and I think she'd have trouble simply because she's small, maybe 60 pounds right now. I'm giving her the shot.

[jerryf]

Thanks for the opinions
I have given using Lutalyse on these doelings a lot of thought
Today I discussed it with my vet- a good goat vet that knows my herd.

I have a very select group of Boers producing brood stock. Large animals with fast rate of gain and does that really milk to wean large well grown kids.

A fellow breeder says
I usually breed my does for the first time when they are about 12-14 months old. It just seems to give them a better start. I usually take them off the creep feeder once I start breeding them. Put them in the pasture to be goats for a while. Then I get them up about a month before they kid to give them CD/T shots, and start feeding them some. After they kid, I put them on full feed.

This afternoon I gave the 6 doelings a Lutalyse shot and will follow up with the second shot. Then wait till April to breed them-- when they are a good 14 months old they will then kid with the main herd in early next fall.
Jerry

[Milk n' Honey]

I think it might depend on what you are breeding for too. Most commercial herd owners are looking at the bottom line and need to make money. If you are breeding for show and breeding stock and not as concerned with the commercial aspect, you are then more of a hobby breeder and would probably care more about the quality rather the quantity and bottom line. Please don't think I'm knocking commercial herds....the two are just very different outlooks. Jerry, I've seen your website and you have some beautiful stock. I think you are making a wise decision, in my opinion and this coming from looking at other people's stock whom have chosen one method or the other. The lady we bought our buck from does not breed her does until the are close to 15 months old. She told us that they end up with stunted growth if you breed younger. I can tell you that her does are the biggest, nicest does I've seen and I mean the whole herd is that way....not just a few large does. I'm not talking fat. I'm talking large frame. I was so impressed that I had to listen to what she was saying. So, we will probably be breeding more on age than on weight. I know what the majority of people say but what she told us is that she wants them to be mature internally as well as externally. Now, I've also seen several goats froma herd where they were breeding them as young as 6-7 months. At a year or so of age, they still looked like tiny little does. I can't tell you how they were being fed though. That would come into play also. I just think, I'd feel more comfortable breeding mine later. That is my opinion. I might try going by weight, on one test doe, at some point and just see how it turns out. It won't be one of my best though. We don't creep feed past 6 months. They seem to get too fat, if we do. We had one that got so fat that her knees started to bow in. After taking her away from the creep feed, she lost weight and her legs straightened right out. We weren't overfeeding her...we use the 15 minute rule. One thing for sure, if you don't care about making money on those does quickly, you aren't going to hurt anything by waiting. I haven't seen any of our does, who are that age, get too fat and we have several that age who are just now getting bred. However, you never know, with a young doe. They might do OK or they might not. I've heard many stories about young does having trouble or not wanting to Mother the babies. I don't want to bottle feed!! LOL!! Well, there is my take on it, FWIW. BTW, when do you want to sell that Iron Gate (think that is his name) buck to me? Please????

[Jim S.]

Originally Posted by Milk n' Honey

If you are breeding for show and breeding stock and not as concerned with the commercial aspect, you are then more of a hobby breeder and would probably care more about the quality rather the quantity and bottom line. Please don't think I'm knocking commercial herds....the two are just very different outlooks.

Agreed. And that, my friends, is what is wrong with the goat industry in the United States today. In my view, those outlooks should be almost identical, as they are in the U.S. cattle industry, and as they are in South Africa and New Zealand, the chief importers to the U.S. of Boer and Boer-cross meat.

When the show/breeder and commercial outlooks finally come together in the U.S., if they ever do, we will then be on the way to being a much stronger agrciultural endeavor than we are now. Because otherwise, in my opinion, it's just frittering away money for playtime, and weakening the breeds over time. The rubber meets the road when you farm them.

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