Baby down..

[chris30523]

I lost a doe a few weeks back to anemia.She left two kids about 8 weeks old. They were on feed good so I just separated them from the herd to make sure they got to eat. I wormed them.They are getting creep fed a medicated 18% feed,all the hay they want and water.They are in a small pen in with other goats so they are not alone just separate.They are both weak. The buckling has been so weak the past couple of days that he will only get to his knees.They are both anemic now. I re-wormed with cydectin,they are getting red cell ttwice a day,the doeling seems to be getting better,the buckling is eating ,drinking (If I hold him up to drink) ,pooping, and peeing(on himself cause he won't or can't stand).

What to do?? We were never sure what the anemia was from in the mom. We assumed worms but she just wouldn't get better.Could it be some sort of virus?These are boer goats . I am at a loss.

[susanne]

have you ever have the fecal checked from the dam?
if not, do it now for the kids. there is no time to loose as they are dying.

[chris30523]

We had several fecals done after she died on several of the other goats who were having some trouble. haemonchus contortus (barber pole worms) then again after we wormed with cydectin and the cydectin seemed to be working.
I had used a 2yo bottle on her so we got fresh wormer for the others. These have been wormed on schedule with Valbazen, and most recently (3days ago) cydectin. No diarrhea, normal poop,the vet takes 3 days to get a fecal to me?Temp 103 The gums are looking more pink this am, the doeling I put out with the other goats so she could move around and get some browse since last night and she seems much better. He is alert this am but still won't stand. I have been giving B combo also.

[Sher]

Are you sure its worms? I would think deficiency maybe. Like selenium or iodine.

Good luck!

[chris30523]

had not considered selenium. Don't have any selenium where would I find it?Local feed store doesn't carry it.(we supposedly are not in a deficent area).He has had access to free choice mineral.

[Milk n' Honey]

Selenium comes in the form of Bo/Se. You have to get it from the vet as it is prescription only. I just got through giving a 5 cc dose to my pregnant doe as she is due to kid in 2-4 wks. We also dose kids when they are born. However, I had a goat who did this same thing and he stopped growing and was down on his front legs, anemic and weak. He would eat but just got continually weaker and then one day he died. He was 3 months old when he died and he was a bottle baby. We had dewormed him and everything. He ended up having complications due to naval ill which we never would have figured out. The vet did an autopsy and found it. Then I remembered the lady told me that she never saw the importance in using iodine on navals when the kids were born so she never messed with it. Well, there you go!
Do you think I learned a lesson? Be careful who you buy from and always iodine navals...maybe more than once. If that is what you are dealing with, I don't know what to tell you b/c we tried giving antibiotics and it didn't help. It might take something really strong. Also, the bacteria from naval ill can travel to almost anywhere once it goes up through the naval. It is serious. Anemia is a result of worm overloads, lice and also infection in general. Did they get iodine on their navals at birth? I sure hope you can save the little things. It is so sad. When they go down on their knees, they are becoming so weak and you are most likely 1-2 wks from losing them. The above scenario was my experience. It isn't a for sure answer but maybe it will help you some. One more thing, Barber Pole Worm has become extremely resistant to dewormers in many areas. Do a search on "barber pole goat" and read some articles on it. I bought some DE and added it to my goat's feed. I hope it helps to combat the worms. I've been told that it does alot to fight internal parasites. I wish you all the luck in the world....prayers to you.

[DQ]

I want to point out that access to free choice minerals is not gaurantee that they are getting what they need. if they are not lacking in salt they will not go after the minerals. there is not documented proof that animals can self regulate anything but salt. so if you rule out worms (by the way my dog/cat vet does a fecal while I am still in the office there is NO reason why you shouldn't be able to get almost immediate results especially in an emergency) I would look into mineral probs. get some bo-se while your at the vet getting a fecal. if this has been going on a few days you are already running way behind. also a virus usually instigates a immune response, runny eyes, mucous etc,....or if intestinal-diahrea so its doubtful that would be a cause.

do they have a temp? , a temp indicates possible infection and would indicate possible use of an antibiotic.

link to chart showing mineral interactions
http://www.eidon.com/mineral_interactions.htm

[chris30523]

Talked to the best goat vet we have (and that isn't saying much) she said It was just weakness from the anemia. They have seen alot of it around this area cause of the drought followed by heat and rain. It has caused a worm "bloom". They don't carry the BOSE but could order it if I brought him in and they determined that was the cause,or they could give a blood transfusion. She reccomended that I hit the worst ones with every class of wormer. Cydectin,valbazen,and levamisole. I don't have the levamisole and it seems it is on indefinate backorder?? I also cannot find injectible iron. Thanks for the help.

He did get his navel iodine. That doesn't guarantee protection against navel ill though just makes it less likely. No temp. Still 103 .

[Milk n' Honey]

If naval ill is the cause, it will be a bacterial infection. Strong antibiotics will be required and I forgot to add that the temp. of the goat will probably be below normal. Have you taken a temp.? My goat that I lost to this was a Boer also. He was a fullblood buckling.

[Alice In TX/MO]

You can get BoSe online from one of the goat supply companies.

[Milk n' Honey]

I heard injectable iron can be dangerous too. How long has this been going on Chris? When did the goat start showing symptoms and when did the one go down? I agree that the anemia can cause the goat to go down. I also lost a couple of kids to worm overloads but it was our fault for not deworming them. We learned that ya just can't let anything pass with a goat. They aren't dogs. We used to raise dogs and they are very forgiving when it comes to health. Goats, you have to stay right on top of everything....that's what we've learned....the hard way. Anyway, we had one with anemia and bottlejaw from the anemia. We dewormed them after the symptoms. Later we found out through necropsy that we had problems with lungworm and whipworm here. A dose of Panacur, 1 time a day for 3 days. You get the tube of equine Panacur and dose double the horse dose for the above times. We lost several goats before realizing this and have since saved a few. Anemia would always accompany along with weakness and loss of condition. Eventually, before death, they'd be all skin and bones. They never stopped picking at feed but you had to put the dish under their noses and they'd just lay there and eat and poop. It was so sick to watch....very disheartening when you can't help them. That necropsy has paid off big time. We have lots of snails so that causes more problems for us. Whatever it is, I hope you get it taken care of. Sometimes it is a guessing game and there just aren't many vets that are reliable enough with goats to help us much. Take care.

[susanne]

Originally Posted by Rose

You can get BoSe online from one of the goat supply companies.

rose you have to get bo-se from the vet.

[chris30523]

my vet rushed the fecal through and there were few worms.She said not enough to be pathogenic so the cydectin worked.The worms cydectin doesn't get is the reason she said to hit with all three classes of wormer if you are in a struggle with anemia.She said it will kill the adult worms and give the goat a chance to recover. I am giving red -cell twice a day, I will have to do without the injectable iron. The injectable iron can rarely cause a reaction,but then again so can anything we inject.It is a mute point though as the last order I got from Jeffers took 7 days.

[Alice In TX/MO]

I ordered and received BoSe from Hoegger last week.

[susanne]

rose are we talking about the same Bo-Se injectable as i am? or did you order a gel for oral treatment?
Bo-Se is Rx med.
gel is an option i guess but the selenium is not as bio available to the goat as would be injectable selenium.

[chamoisee]

It wouldn't hurt to at least try giving it some baking soda, about half a tsp twice a day. Just put it in his mouth. Making sure that you hold him up to nurse several times a day is key. All the meds and testing in the world won't help him if he doesn't get enough milk to drink.

[chris30523]

chamoisee that is part of the problem with these two . Their mom died about 4 weeks ago. She nursed them okay,but she was a first time mom, they never grew well but wouldn't take a bottle.They were 8 weeks old by that time and eating well on their own so I went ahead and weaned them. I am afraid that they didn't get what they needed to begin with so they are having problems recovering. The heat is not helping,along with the stress of losing mom and weaning. I will try the baking soda it won't hurt.

[Liese]

Chris , would there be another goat herd nearby enough to you to take these two and have them nurse from another Mum, or barring that how about just getting some fresh goats' milk? Or maybe you have some in the freezer? I know you said they were weaned but I wonder if they wouldn't take some milk and that would at least help. If they won't take a bottle just put it into a pail or dish. Are you giving B complex SQ? They may need some help in the B's and it stimulates the appetite - orally is not as effective. There is a Sel-E gel thru PBS which doesn't require Rx. adding Vit E to their water is also good. 500IU. I'd also isolate them so they don't get knocked about and feed them most favoured goatie foods - pine boughs, your best hay, etc. Maybe even bring them into the house and put into the bathroom so they are in the A/C. All the very best

[chris30523]

Thanks all. I did try giving them milk and they both took some.I think the doeling is getting stronger. I suspect the little buckling will be dead in the Am.
I found injectable iron finally .Had to drive 45minutes to get there but I found it. Have not had any luck with the Levamisole , seems it is unavailable.Anybody ever use the iron ?? The directions say IM which is how you use it in pigs .I know the iron shots I used to give were IM but we also used to give vit B injections Im and everyone on here gives SQ. I gave each 1ml IM tonite. We will see in the morning.

[GSFarm]

I use mine IM. I use Ferrodex and it works like magic.

I'd put those kids on a worming schedule. Do a white wormer to get rid of tapeworms ( Safegaurd or Valbazen ) Do that again in ten days to break the cycle. About a week later do a wormer like Cydectin or Ivermectin. Good Luck!

Also get some Vitamin B into that kid Thiamine would work great too.