Goats going down

[barelahh]

I need some input. i have no idea why this is happening.
i have had several of my goats go down on their sides over the past month i guess, and i find them laying there weak.
I give the 5cc of powerpunch and in about 20 min their back up and wandering around.

I have been mainly feeding them leaves from trees i cut down and sweetfeed n corn mix but recently i changed to alfalfa pellets, sweetfeed, BOSS and leaves and hay when i can find it.

I can't figure out why their going down like this. I suspect its the protein level but won't know for a few days til they get enough of this new mix in them.
Any ideas on this??

Oh i have angora goats, 4 year old, a 2 year old and my 2month old kids have been theones going down like this. I went up to pick up another 2yo and kid the other day and got back and found one of my kids on her side looking half dead. picked her up and she was as limp as a dish rag. Fed her powerpunch and held her for about 15 min and she was strong enough to walk around.

[Feral Nature]

I would worm them immediately with "Cydectin pour on for cattle" but give it ORALLY at 1cc per 25 lbs....in the mouth for goats. It's purple and smells like kerosene. You have to buy a 500ml bottle and it costs over 60 bucks but it is good stuff....it is at feedstores. Also, it would really help to know what part of the country you are in as treatments vary sometimes by location.

have they been wormed on schedule? If so when and with what. Paracites can kill and babies in particular. Are their mucous membranes white or pale pink? Turn their eyelids over and look. Do they have diarrhea? have they been treated with anything for cocci? They would need a sulfa med if they have cocci, a vet can do a fecal exam and maybe save them if you can get a sample in. Are they eating well? Do the moms have plenty of milk?

As far as diet, browse, hay and alfalfa pellets are good. i would get rid of the sweetfeed altogether, that can kill goats if overfed. You can give each one a small rationed out portion of grain such as dry oats and a little corn and BOSS, but limited, not free-choice. Start with a small handfull. They can eventually be on all the alfalfa pellets they want, that is fine, all it is is dehydrated hay, good for them.

Is there anything else you can tell us about the sick goats? Respiratory symptoms? Diarrhea? Tight tummies? Skinny goats or fat goats? Dull or shiney looking? Temperature? Are they getting minerals? What can you tell us.

[barelahh]

Originally Posted by Feral Nature

I would worm them immediately with "Cydectin pour on for cattle" but give it ORALLY at 1cc per 25 lbs....in the mouth for goats. It's purple and smells like kerosene. You have to buy a 500ml bottle and it costs over 60 bucks but it is good stuff....it is at feedstores. Also, it would really help to know what part of the country you are in as treatments vary sometimes by location.

i am in georgia, they have been wormed 2 weeks ago with ivomectin injectable.

have they been wormed on schedule? If so when and with what.

yes every six weeks and with ivermectin. kids were just wormed with it for first time 2 weeks ago.
membrane in eyes are reddish

Do they have diarrhea?

no

have they been treated with anything for cocci?

no

Do the moms have plenty of milk?

Their being weaned. all of the moms are about dry, and one is a bottle baby. I haven't had her go down once. the other two have.


Is there anything else you can tell us about the sick goats?

Respiratory symptoms?

No difficulty in breathing.

Diarrhea? none
Tight tummies?no
Skinny goats or fat goats? both.
Dull or shiney looking? welll white and wooly
Temperature? I have no idea no thermometer

Are they getting minerals? yes

[Alice In TX/MO]

You might want to read through the old threads on worming. There is much doubt on the effectiveness of Ivomec on goat worms.

[Patty0315]

Worming every 6 weeks sounds like a bit much . If the eye lids are dark pink /red you are not dealing with the blood sucking stomach worms. I would be afraid of liver damage by worming to much. Worm when needed only. What were the temps on the days you had this problem ? Do they have shade. Maybe add gatoraide or koolaide to get them to drink more.

Also cut out the sweet feed. Feed whole grains instead like oats.


Patty

[DQ]

just a note. make sure you are not cutting leaves from a black cherry tree or anything else that might be toxic. the hay/leaves/alfalfa pellets needs to make up 90% of their diet. the protein level isn't your problem. likely your protein has gone up and any extra is just being filtered out by their kidneys. BOSS are high protein as well as alfalfa pellets. I normally consider toxic plants last on the list as probable causes and worms first, but since you are cutting the brush and bring it too them they may not be as selective about what they are eating than if they were picking and choosing themselves, and there is a higher probability of them eating something toxic, that might cause weakness temporarily before their liver manages to eradicate it from their system.

[barelahh]

Originally Posted by DQ

just a note. make sure you are not cutting leaves from a black cherry tree or anything else that might be toxic. the hay/leaves/alfalfa pellets needs to make up 90% of their diet. the protein level isn't your problem. likely your protein has gone up and any extra is just being filtered out by their kidneys.

no they need the protein. their Angora goats. They grow mohair wool. The protein goes into wool production.

I normally consider toxic plants last on the list as probable causes and worms first, but since you are cutting the brush and bring it too them they may not be as selective about what they are eating than if they were picking and choosing themselves, and there is a higher probability of them eating something toxic, that might cause weakness temporarily before their liver manages to eradicate it from their system.

Well i don't have enough fence to turn thm loose and i am on a forested acre, not pastured. The only toxic plant i have on the place is mountain laurel and that only makes them toss their cookies.

[barelahh]

Originally Posted by Patty0315

Worming every 6 weeks sounds like a bit much . If the eye lids are dark pink /red you are not dealing with the blood sucking stomach worms. I would be afraid of liver damage by worming to much. Worm when needed only. What were the temps on the days you had this problem ? Do they have shade. Maybe add gatoraide or koolaide to get them to drink more.

Also cut out the sweet feed. Feed whole grains instead like oats.


Patty

their eyelids have never been dark pink/red. even the kids have never been that color when they were born. at best i can tell a pinkish color to them even after they have been wormed.

[barelahh]

Originally Posted by Rose

You might want to read through the old threads on worming. There is much doubt on the effectiveness of Ivomec on goat worms.

i have and i have also read several other sites.
jim in tn i believe has said on many occasions that he has wormed with it for over 10 years with no problems. so have many others. i believe that they also said the problem is that people don't worm properly and with enough of the wormer and it allows the worms to survive and become resistant.

I am not using the stuff that is pourable, i am using the injectible and giving 1cc per 50lbs of weight.

[moonspinner]

I've never heard of this problem. Could it be something blood sugar - hypoglycemia related? For some reason doesn't strike me as a worm problem.

[susanne]

what kind of mineral do you feed your goats? is there enough selenium and copper in it?
what quality is your water? lots of iron?
pale eye membrane can be a sign of copper deficiency.
i would do a fecal check just so you don't miss anything.

[chris30523]

I have used the ivomec 1% injectible(orally) without any trouble till this year. I don't know where you are in GA. but he weather here in the last month has caused a worm overload. It was hot and dry till the last month so nothing grew and what grass is there is short, we have had a thunder shower about everyday. It is now hot and wet. Everyone in our area is having problems.Cocci also.
I had a couple of kids do this earlier this year and I gave baking soda, Bvitamins,and probios. I don't know which worked or if it was all together but they seemed to recover with no problem. I am thinking rumen acidosis was my problem.They both had traumatic births. Sweet feed can cause an acid rumen also.Something to try ??

[DQ]

Originally Posted by barelahh

no they need the protein. their Angora goats. They grow mohair wool. The protein goes into wool production.


Well i don't have enough fence to turn thm loose and i am on a forested acre, not pastured. The only toxic plant i have on the place is mountain laurel and that only makes them toss their cookies.

mmm.. goat puke I'm sure they need the protein for top production I thought you were worried they might be getting too much since it sounded like you just changed their diet to a higher protein feed. the added alfalfa pellets and BOSS would up the protein over most sweet feed and certainly the corn and grass hay. if it were low protein it should get better with the afalfa and BOSS added to the feed so.... could there be something in the hay? I know that drought can cause excess nitrogen in some grasses due to the stress. very strange.

[chamoisee]

Have you ever watched them go down? Does it happen slowly or suddenly?

This is just bizarre!

Is there any chance at all they could have fainter blood?

[moonspinner]

Do they browse on laurel consistently? That stuff is highly toxic and a friend almost lost her goat on it. Consuming this plant can apparently cause weakness and inability to stand. Don't know if this might have a connection to your problem.

[Feral Nature]

Can you post pics of the goats in question?

[barelahh]

Originally Posted by DQ

mmm.. goat puke I'm sure they need the protein for top production I thought you were worried they might be getting too much since it sounded like you just changed their diet to a higher protein feed. the added alfalfa pellets and BOSS would up the protein over most sweet feed and certainly the corn and grass hay. if it were low protein it should get better with the afalfa and BOSS added to the feed so.... could there be something in the hay? I know that drought can cause excess nitrogen in some grasses due to the stress. very strange.

hmmmmmmmmmm hay......i don't know about the hay.

[barelahh]

Originally Posted by moonspinner

Do they browse on laurel consistently? That stuff is highly toxic and a friend almost lost her goat on it. Consuming this plant can apparently cause weakness and inability to stand. Don't know if this might have a connection to your problem.

No the babies slip through the fence and get into it every now and then, but they never get enough to be fatal. And you don't know it til about 4 or 5 hours after they have gotten into it. usually the first sign is from a stream of goat puke shooting across the pen.

After a few hours their back to normal. I think they get into it and eat a little while getting the other plants. if all they got was the mountain laurel, then i would think it would kill them.

[barelahh]

Originally Posted by Feral Nature

Can you post pics of the goats in question?

Not anything now, i dn't have a camera. ;( it broke during the move. sigh.

Right now the only one i am having problems with is frick the 4 year old. i am thinking its a nutritional thing. hve to figure out what it is.

[Milk n' Honey]

Do they have plenty of long-stemmed forage? Isn't it a bad drought down there? I wouldn't deworm anything every 6 weeks. It isn't doing you any good to deworm that often. Chemical dewormers are actually a poison. They are great to have when you need them, but given too often could be hazardous to your goats and will become ineffective sooner than you wish. You need to get a fecal check done at the end of your 6 weeks and see what is going on. If the ivermectin is working for you now, it won't be in the near future since you are using it so heavily. That is what causes the worms to become resistant to it. Underdosing at the time of deworming can create resistant worms too. Slightly overdosing without too frequent of dewormings is the key on ivermectin. I would think you'd get buy at least deworming every 4 months. I'd really get the fecal check done, if it were me. They aren't that expensive. Just take goat berries from a few of the goats (all combined is fine) and take it to your vet. Barber Pole Worm is becoming a problem for some goat breeders. It has become resistant to most dewormers. I'm adding 2% DE to my feed to try and help with parasites. Could your goats be Vitamin B deficient? If it were me, I'd inject some B vitamins into the kids at least. Maybe do that for a couple of days and see if they stop having these episodes. I was thinking of perhaps polio. Are there any other symptoms at all? Do they have access to clean water all the time? Goats usually will not drink dirty water and they sound like they could be dehydrated. Anyway, I'd give the Vit. B shots. It can't hurt. Make sure they have free choice mineral always. I also give baking soda free choice b/c it keeps the ph level stable in their rumems. I have a goat that bloats more than the others. She gets all foamy around her mouth. I always check the baking soda whem that happens. It does make a difference. She does much better when she has baking soda. Good luck. I don't know what else to add but I hope you get it figured out.