The future of dairying/Animal rights activists

[sheepy]

Hi Lately around here (Australia) we've been getting a lot of animal rights coverage, mainly about dairying, poultry and pigs, but also other fibre farming also. One article I read said that dairy cows are 'forced' to get pregnant and 'forced' to give birth, well my cow wasn't forced to do anything, had she told the bull where to go she wouldn't have gotten pregnant (and as for birth...she did that in her own sweet time!), but also about calves been removed and killed (most go to calf raising companies (where they are grown out), it's big business) and how the cows cry for days (I mean tears!!!), when my cow lost her calf last year (drowned after birthing) she only spent about and hour with it, before leaving and as far as I could see she wasn't overly upset, she still ate all her grain and tried her level best to escape into the next-door neighbours paddock. As for the goats, some of them just drop the kids and keep on walking, leaving me to pick up the mess! And the sheep, don't even get me started!!! I have decided to catch my dairy kids, in the belief that it's a lot less stressful for both dam and kid them leaving them together for days or even weeks, I have got a lot of opposition about this but so far I've stuck to my decision. The leading argument is that I should 'share' milk, I've been there and done that and it wasn't worth my while for a cup of milk and a doe who does just about everything she can think of to stop you milking her, I also had to go down the paddock to retrieve both her and the wayward kids so I could pen them overnight, they get pretty cunning after a few weeks and the kids were wild, if I had 10 I'm sure i could do the daily handling everyone talks about to keep them quite, but I've got to work and I just don't have time for individual kid wrangling everyday. When I bucket feed them I see them everyday and I give each one a scratch as I feed them, much easier, for me anyhow. This is not a criticism of those of you who do share milk, I say good for you, whatever suits your situation I say. But I'm getting worried I soon won't have any choice on how to treat my animals, as far as I know I'm not torturing them, and I think I treat them pretty good, they never want for food, water or medical attention. I also get really irritated when animal rights come out with something that really proves they know nothing about animals: One told me I should wash my sheep’s bottoms everyday so I didn't have to dock And then informed how sheep are well known to help each other. Help each other do what, suffocate?? I've never seen a sheep help another, it's all for one and one for all around here. So that’s my rant, I'm thinking of giving up dairying all together, I think removing kids (or any baby) is a hard decision to make but I thought I'd made the right one for my situation. Maybe I'm wrong
Sheepy

[DixyDoodle]

Well, all I can say is that they might be vegans, but they still rely on animal products somewhere along the line, for something they use or eat. It's all about how they justify it. Most of those fanatics will probably say, "Well, I limit my use of animal stuff as much as I can," as if that means they are holier than thou. I'm sorry, but if you are using ANY form of animal material, you are just as guilty as us meat eaters. Everyone has a justification for what they use.

A lot of other people that are so concerned about cruelty, although sometimes justified, also do not have a clue as to how a farm really works anyhow. They are relying on what they read or what PETA tells them (in other words, misinformed or gullible enough to believe anything). I think a lot of their confusion is due to ignorance. Living away from the homestead (relying on others to feed them), they have no clue, and also have a storybook/fairyland view of nature (which in reality, is sometimes harsh and hard, but it has to be to ensure survival of the fittest). Some things on a farm are done for the animals' comfort. Most farmers do not go out of their way to do things to their animals just for some sort of evil fun----there is a PURPOSE to it.

And who are we to talk anyhow? We mutilate our own children, don't we? Circumcisions, ear piercing of babies, etc. I wonder if any animal activists do that?

Uh oh, I'd better not put that bottle of Midol away quite yet, huh?

[Filas are Prima]

Time for you to post NO TRESSPASSING signs, and brandish your flyswatter!
Since you're in "lilly white" Australia, I understand your defense/protection options are serverely limited.
Get the toughest Queensland Heeler you can find. It may help keep the PETA fools away.
Gentlemannly manners are NOT required in assault situations like you are enduring.

[sheepy]

I took my dog in to training a few years ago, a woman there accused me of mistreating her, said I was under feeding her and she was malnourished, my dog just turned a fit and healthy 14 and has raised over 20 pups in this time, her dog didn't make it to 5, I did try and warn her
Sheepy

[sheepy]

Just read your message Filas are Prima, love it! Will be sure to implement ASAP
Sheepy

[mygoat]

Just keep in mind most of those who write those articles and that are in PETA believe everyone raising livestock are heartless, lol. They are also ignorant in that none have ever owned said livestock (how could they, it's against thier 'rules'). I personally don't worry about it, because no matter what they do they will never convince the masses to give up steak or burger. And you'll be looking down the barrel of my shotgun if you try to take my goats away from me!

[AnnaS]

PETA's website is scary in its ignorance and use of inflammatory language. They call AI "rape", refer to milkers as "powerful machines that suck milk from the cows' bodies" and say that heifer calves are slaughtered at birth for their rennet. What?? One of their members talks about seeing cows screaming "in fear" while coming into the milking parlor.

The problem is there is no media campaign by livestock producers to counter PETA. Most urban people are getting their farming info from HSUS or PETA. At the MN State Fair, I spend hours talking to reasonable, intelligent people who thought dairy animals were treated cruelly to "steal" their milk or that machine milking was painful. These folks have never heard the truth.

[Idahoe]

I think plain old necessity will, over time, extinguish any nonsense PETA or the activists try to put into action.

My does love to be milked, that's how they get their grain. They definitely weren't FORCED to be bred, sheesh, they were hussies. And they love their babies, they are happy and don't know a day without plenty of food and water, and probably think that life is just this big long fest of stuffing their faces and plopping on the ground to chew their cud. I'd like a life that easy and sweet . . .

[Earthbound]

I have worked in the Dairy industry as have many of my friends and family, doing pretty much everything. Depends on the farm how things are run. I've worked at amazing farms where the animals have been treated like gold but have also seen the otherside where i could,nt work the day at a few places due to the terrible conditions. This applies all over the place. As for the animals not feeling emotion or caring about their babies being taken away....I totally disagree, I think that just makes us feel better about our decisions by believing that.
corry

[Wags]

Originally Posted by AnnaS

One of their members talks about seeing cows screaming "in fear" while coming into the milking parlor.

I've never seen them screaming in fear - but I did get chewed out a time or two for being 15 minutes late starting the milking.

[dosthouhavemilk]

Taking calves and kids away at birth....
If it is done everytime with every female, it becomes the norm to them. They don't know any other way. It may upset them intially, but they get over it pretty quickly. The worst I've seen is first calf heifers who had their calves for a week before they were tracked down. That takes them longer to get over it.
We've always removed calves within the first 24 hours if at all possible. It is easier on all involved, including the cows.
I did my first year of pulling kids at birth this year. I almost ended up with a doe needing to be milked twice a day because I took her firstborn, a doe, before she saw it. She was a first freshener. I was expecting twins and an hour later there wasn't another kid. I brought the baby back and she started butting her into the ground. The hormones eventually kicked in and she is a diligent mother, but when the baby is taken immediately after birth, the dams don't experience quite the loss they might if they get to keep the calf/kid for a week.

The Animal Rights groups have a lot of misinformation. Some are based in truth but is soo skewed that it is just ridiculous. I spent four years on an Animal Rights board with other teenagers and young adults. I educated quite a few people in that time. lol It was a blast most of the time. Great people on both sides. They would look to me to correct misinformation.

First timers, in a herd that normally removes calves quickly after birth, are told by the older cows what to expect. Don't believe me? Explain why 7-8 month heavy bred first calf heifers start coming up to the milking barn with the other cows when it has taken hours in the past to get them up there before.....They've been told that now they get grain twice a day in that big building...lol

[Mr. Dot]

Originally Posted by Wags

I've never seen them screaming in fear - but I did get chewed out a time or two for being 15 minutes late starting the milking.

Ain't that the truth.

[AnnaS]

Originally Posted by Wags

I've never seen them screaming in fear - but I did get chewed out a time or two for being 15 minutes late starting the milking.

That dude did NOT speak cow. My does pound on the back door if I'm late for milking, and if I'm late coming home for milking, they go to the neighbor's and pound on THEIR back door.

[sheepy]

I'm not saying animals don't feel emotions, but I don't think they feel the same ones we do. If a doe has a spontaneous abortion she doesn't spend weeks wondering what went wrong and could she have stopped it, she goes out and gets pregnant again. When a baby dies they usually recover pretty quickly from the loss. I also wouldn’t trust my dog not to eat me if I was somehow incapacitated, because despite the fact I love her I know she doesn’t feel the same emotions I do. I agree with dosthouhavemilk, it quite often takes a while for a mother to come round, dairy heifers quite often take a deadly aversion to their newborn calves. I feel that if there is no baby the mother is much less likely to fret, if she's bonded to it then that is a different story. My friends dairy cows bellow to come into the milk parlour, can cows scream in fear anyhow? I've never heard it. I know goats can, I quite often go out to rescue them from the fence in the middle of the night! But it's not something I've ever seen them do coming in to be milked, as a matter of fact you've gotta watch you don't get trampled! It's not just PETA round here we have heaps of different groups, all with different agendas. I wonder if they realise if they got their way and farming for meat, milk and fibre were banned that the domestic animal population would plummet? Maybe even become extinct. I know I wouldn't keep my 2500 or so sheep and 150 cows if I couldn't make money from them, I'd still have to feed them and pay vet bills etc. I might keep a couple of pets, but not much else. Perhaps we should think about a website, informing people of the truth.
Sheepy

[Idahoe]

I only have goats, and so far each one who kidded instantly bonded with their kids. I planned to pull all the kids, but when it came down to it, I couldn't do it. So I pulled doelings mostly, and left bucklings on mama. And I had to pull them FAST as goats can count just fine. They just seem to enjoy being mothers so much (these are LaManchas and this herd was culled for bad or indifferent mothering by the previous owner).

Yup, the domestic animal population would plummet, but I think that is their intent, they believe all animals "want" to live in the wild in the natural state . . . having their young eaten by predators, near starvation in the winter, injured without veterinary care, you know?

[DixyDoodle]

I think that is their intent, they believe all animals "want" to live in the wild in the natural state . . . having their young eaten by predators, near starvation in the winter, injured without veterinary care,

This is a good point!

I think a lot of these folk forget that life in the wild is not all soft and pretty. It's also about starvation, disease, crippling injuries (ever see a wild animal limping around with a partially-severed limb?), ticks, fleas, drought, etc.....In REAL nature, prey animals are chased to exhaustion and pulled to the ground in a flurry of fur and fangs, and often started to be eaten into while they are still alive. That doesn't sound all too fun to me.

Any of my animals that are slated to be eaten get a satisfying and easy life of food, shelter, and attention.....and a quick, HUMANE end. Wild animals should be so lucky, as many of them end up dying slowly from an injury or by a maybe not-so-quick end by a predator.

I think PETA and such people are getting a little confused. Eating meat should not necessarily be equated with being cruel. What it should be about is the care that the animal while it is still alive and capable of feeling. People are too queasy about death, too bad 'cause we all get there some day, you can only hope it's a quick and humane end to a life that was filled with some pleasure. And since my chickens and goats sit around all day and eat and sleep and play, what better life can an animal get?

Oh, I know, the PETA folk will say, "but he has no freedom". To do what? Get eaten by the large cells of coyotes here? Get hit by a car like so many deer do? Pick up a dose of wasting disease? Freeze in the -40C winters? My animals are domestic, ie., raised tame. They do not "miss" freedom as a wild animal might. When they get "free", the generally stand by the door to get back in. My chickens are free range and are not wing-clipped, they could fly off whenever they feel like it. Those animals I have that are fenced in are so for their own safety.

Ahhh, but I will stop now, I know I am wasting my breath on them.

[pookshollow]

Personally, I blame Walt Disney.

[cybercat]

Originally Posted by Idahoe

I think plain old necessity will, over time, extinguish any nonsense PETA or the activists try to put into action.

.

Unfortunatly this will not happen and for some states it is coming fast. Peta has way to much vocal support and they are passing laws on animal ownership now. Just read CA laws now on pet ownership its not a far cry to apply them to small farms. It going to get worse not better for small farms unless you keep on top of the regs and laws in your state being passed. Since these are greerd to all animal owners we are all effected. You might think it only effects the BIG agr farms but it does not. These rulings also effect the smaller home farms for there is not distinction in the wording.

PETAs main goal is to outlaw All animal ownership. This is a well known fact to many of us that have dug deep into them. So do not take them lightly and keep up in your state what laws they are trying to pass. Ban togehter and make your voice heard or else you might loose all you have worked for on your place.

Something to think about the animal ID thing might just be a bug in the ear that PETA started to the USDA. I can see this in them if you think about it for it would serve there interests in the long run.

[DixyDoodle]

Personally, I blame Walt Disney.

LOL I was thinking that too, I almost mentioned Bambi in my previous rant. Maybe Disney was a PETA member, too?

[Filas are Prima]

PETA are simply control freaks.

I've lived my life "according to Bamib", having seen it as a child AFTER having my Mother read to me the book.
And, I've earned my living all these years through animal husbandry.
This is not a contradiction.
Ask Gobo.