Possible objections, anyone want to help me come up with answers?

[ailsaek]

I got this note rfom a friend of mine:

Just to give you an idea of what some people may think. I don't think these things, I think it would be nifty. However, I am not one of your abutting neighbors.

1. Farm critters in the neighborhood will bring the neighborhood resale property values down.

2. Number 1, without tax benefit to those still living there.

3. People move to the burbs to get away from farms.

4. Farm critters smell. How can you keep that smell from the neighbors' homes?

5. Farm critters get loose and will damage neighbors' property.

6. "Everyone knows" that goats eat everything, include neighbors' property and buildings.

7. Chickens are dirty and will peck and harm my children.

8. Farm critters make lots of noise, at ghastly hours of the day, night, and early morning. Chickens can cluck very loudly, even without roosters around. and the bleeting of goats can get very loud, disturbing neighbors sleep. What will you do to keep the noise down?

9. You likely won't have problems with ducks, but do you have a pond for them to play with? Neighbors might be worried that ducks would need to swim, leaving poo and feathers in their swimming pools.

10. The existance of these critters will entice coyotes/fox/other "we know they're here but we like to ignore that fact" carnivorous animals to the vicinity, thus threatening the safety of their children.

11. the existance of carnivorous animals (including stray cats) will cause the chickens/goats to make a lot of noise at night, when normally the existance of those carnivorous critters goes by silently (thus making people believe that those critters are now more numerous due to your chickens)

12. Other wild critters, such as rats, squirrels, chipmunks, mice, skunks, etc will eat your chicken / goat/duck food, thus raising the population of these undesirable wild critters (which will then harm the neighbors property, cause more wild carnivores to be attracted to the area which causes safety fears for their children, etc). Also, the ant/termite population will skyrocket.

13. How are you going to discard their waste? And if the waste has to sit around a bit, how are you going to keep mice/rats from taking up residence?

Don't be surprised if any of these points come up in the meeting, and you really should be prepared to respond to all of them. Actually, if you wrote up something with these concerns and how you intend to mitigate these issues and handed out the paper either AT or Before the meeting starts, neighbors will see that you were not only prepared, but had thought about their concerns seriously enough to address the potential issues, and therefore you are a responsible person who they might want to give a chance to.

Good luck!

My answer to mice & rats is "cats." We have one very good mouser, and tehre are a lot of outdoor cats in the neighborhood. If they can't keep the mice in hand, I'll get myself a barn cat as well. And I'm planning on putting in a wading pool for the ducks, and either composting the wastes or giving it to the CSA for compost, so that's not a worry.

I honestly don't get why the ant & termite population would skyrocket, so I can't think of an answer for that, but what do I say about predators? I"m [hoping I can fence well enough to keep what's supposed to be in, in, and what's supposed to be out, out, but I won't really know that until I've done it.

[HHR]

Maybe you could keep the animals in the barn 'til 7-8 am (or whenever the neighbors get out of bed) you can keep a full hayfeeder in the barn for the goats. Maybe keep a radio out in the barn for noise (so the neighbors can't distinguish between animal noise and the radio). I would put the radio out there before you even get the animals.

I know when I was a kid in a small town, one of our neighbors had goats, she had a privacy fence all the way around the yard.

[DQ]

I wouldn't say your depending on cats for mouse control. what I would say is that you will keep all feed in rodent proof containers and only put out what feed can be consumed in one sitting. you should really do all that too! animal waste is not a home for rodents. ducks don't need a pool they could dipute because its a skeeter breeder anyway. goats and chickens only smell when kept in confined, over crowded conditions explain your intention to have a low stocking rate. discuss your intentions to get notoriously quiet breeds of animals and not keep any that prove to be a noise problem. besides cats and dogs are no more noisy than farm animals yo might remind them of that. explain that you will take responsibility for monetary damages to property should your animals escape (just as they would, if there dog ate your cushions off the chairs on your porch) and have a very detailed plan for fencing showing how you will prevent escapees from happening. chickens are alot less dangerous than the cats and dogs that your neighbors already have, and besides they will be confined. your animals could attract predators, but due to your plan for secure fencing it should not be a problem. coyotes and fox prey on cats, wild birds, and rodents that are already present in the enviroment. you will simply compost their waste. bring a pamphlet detailing a good compost pile and the LACK of smell associated with it. dog poop smells too, worse than goat poop for sure. I bet they have dogs. explain that you intend to care for these animals just as they all care for their pets. you will be respnsible for damages they cause, take care to dispose of waste properly, and keep them confined on your property.

[mygoat]

I always hate to hear that livestock are dirty. No, they're really not. However, since most people procrastinate cleaning of housing and coops, they can't help but live in thier own poo, hence the myth that goats/chickens/ etc are dirty animals. mention this and tell them you'll work to keep thier pens as clean as possible. This goes for the 'smelly' thing too. Also, don't keep any buck goats on the property, lol.

About the chickens hurting children... tell them any mean chickens will immediately go to 'freezer camp!'

For the 'goats eat everything' let people know they're not garbage disposers and while they to taste alot of things, they actually cannot eat tin cans etc like the myths say. They learn with thier mouths like young children and therefore taste everything, which is probably where that myth came from. They will eat cloth and plastics though, because they are often the same textures as plan life and they therefore think they are edible. Lots of goats die from such because people think goats are supposed to eat stuff like that, or think it's funny to feed it to them.

Loudness: Chickens don't really cluck all that loudly. They roost at night. They sometimes holler while laying an egg, but other than that they're quiet. Goats do holler, so be ready to cull any goats that are loud. Never keep just one, have a buddy for it at all times. Get a quiet breed like lamancha or alpine, not a nubian, hehe.

Poo discard is easy. Find a person in your area who loves gardening, and offer them a lifetime's supply of the best fertilizer on the planet: goat and chicken poo!

I could comment on more but this is getting quite long, lol.

[Triffin]

I see you're in MA ..

What do your local ordinances say about
keeping farm animals/poultry/livestock at
your particular location ???

Triff ..

[susanne]

we live on a 10 acre farm with all our animals, chickens with roosters, very noisy emden geese and of course nubians that are known to be noisier than other breeds. we are surrounded from city folks that choose to move to country side because it is so clean and pretty (they destroy all the beauty with their subs popping up ) if they don't like the lovely smell from my bucks they should leave their windows shut
if you moved to a suburb area and want to start with animals that would not be a good idea. this calls for trouble.

[Bearfootfarm]

Unless youre letting all your animals run free, most of these "problems" and NOT problems at all.

If they say the chickens will harm their childrem tell them to keep their kids at THEIR home where they belong...Tell them the manure is composted and no different than the fertilizers they buy to put on their "perfect" lawns.

I imagine with windows closed and AC's running, no one can hear your animals anyway.

Unless youre breaking a noise ordinance, based on decibels, its not an issue

[Scrounger]

I dunno about chickens being quiet! My roosters crow at all hours of the day (and sometimes even after dark). I can hear them 100 yards away in the house about 45 minutes before sunup every morning. As far as mice - when I first got the chickens, I had a dirt floor in the coop. I had a couple of mice build nests inside. I flushed them out with water and the chickens killed and ate them. Haven't seen one since. My brother told me that "if you have chickens, you have rats". He was concerned that MY rats would move over to his place (1/2 mile away). They must have, because they ain't here! My neighbor's 1/2 mile away can hear my chickens and goats. I can hear their cattle. It's RURAL AMERICA.

[ailsaek]

Originally Posted by Triffin

I see you're in MA ..

What do your local ordinances say about keeping farm animals/poultry/livestock at your particular location ???

Triff ..

Local ordinances say that anyone with over an acre of land can keep livestock with permission of the board of health. I've filed an application ($20) and sent certified letters to all the abutters ($65), now the only hurdle I have left to face is the Board of Health meeting on the 9th of July. My next-door neighbors have already made it very clear that they are going to fight it, but I've had one neighbor drop by this morning to clarify a few things and left thinking it was all a lovely idea and asking if we could swap plants, and got a phone call from another (our local neighborhgood anti-sprawl activist) for whom I am going to go over and pull all her poison ivy assuming the vote goes my way.

So now we'll just see how it goes. I found out that one of my abutters keeps ducks already, so it might work out. There used to be more farms here before development took over, but some still remain.

[boermommy]

First of all, people, as a rule, can be buttheads sometimes.

Now, that I got that off my chest..............
1-Property resale value is not affected by the neighbors.......Either they like the house or they don't....what it is worth isn't based on who the neighbors are...
2-My goats go to bed at 9:00pm and get up at about 7:30am..I'm a bigger party animal than they are and I am old as dirt.
3-Do not get a rooster...that's the only chicken I've seen go after a human...the hens we had were downright boring.
4-I know lots of people in McMansions who have mice, roaches and assorted other critters with no livestock nearby. Go figure.
5-Ants and termites? Lord have mercy, now they're gonna be grasping at straws.
6-I've goats for 4 years and have seen no increase in wild animals in the vicinity at all. The skunks, possums, and other critters are ALREADY out there....and chances are the goats would scare the crap out of them if the two were to cross paths. The only traffic increase is the neighbors stop by a lot more to pet when we have babies. And people, I do not live in the sticks either. I live in a suburb outside the city limits.

Good luck to you....do you really like living in MA?

[Just Me]

Can you bring other small farm owners with you to help answer questions?

[ailsaek]

Originally Posted by boermommy

Good luck to you....do you really like living in MA?

Not as much as I used to. W're staying in this house one more year so our son can go to kindergarten, because New Hampshire doesn't mandate it, but David has Down Syndrome and I want to keep him in a good program as long as possible. The two towns we're looking at the most seriously, Derry and Atkinson, both have good school systems, but, like I said, no kindergarten.

I keep reminding myself, I could have lousy next-door neighbors anywhere. This town is full of nice people, it's just the luck of the draw that we got stuck next to a pair of impossible ones.

[Just Me]

Originally Posted by ailsaek

Not as much as I used to. W're staying in this house one more year so our son can go to kindergarten, because New Hampshire doesn't mandate it, but David has Down Syndrome and I want to keep him in a good program as long as possible.

Consider moving to Pennsylvania. The Gertrude Barber Center is amazing! http://www.drbarbercenter.org/

[boermommy]

As far as home towns go, I bet I have everybody beat.

If you've ever watched "The Andy Griffith Show", you've seen where I live.

Come on down here.

Absolutely no offense meant to anyone above the Mason Dixon line.

[ailsaek]

Originally Posted by boermommy

Come on down here.

Absolutely no offense meant to anyone above the Mason Dixon line.

Darn, that's tempting. Less than five minutes looking found me this , so I imagine I can find quite a few places down tehre that are just what we're looking for.

And none taken.

[boermommy]

Very nice....but think of the fence you'll have to build...LOL.

I really do wish you luck.

[naturewoman]

My chickens and goats do not make noises at night because of predators. They die silently...well, I've never lost a goat to a predator, but I have fowl, and even the dogs didn't wake up, so there was no noise.

Do not get a rooster.

I don't know why you wouldn't be starting your own compost pile...that stuff is black gold for your gardens, and done properly, it is pretty much labor free and odor free and does not attract varmints. If you end up with so much you can't use it all (I can't imagine that) you can offer to sell it cheap to neighbors who love to garden. Along with fresh eggs.

chickens will attract skunks and raccoons if you don't build the pen to be predator proof and make sure they are safely locked up at night. If the predators can't get in, and you have dogs on the property, they won't keep coming back. If you forget to lock them up at night and lose one or more, they will hang around awhile. The chickens laying in places other than in the hen house, will encourage skunks to come back...keep the birds locked up so they have to lay where you can collect all eggs every day.

Make sure you have a doe that is not noisy when in heat. I have two goats..one is silent in heat, the other could peel wallpaper. She is also noisier about wanting attention. She's a Nigerian dwarf. My Saanen Toggenburg is pretty much silent.

[BlueHeronFarm]

Hre are a few suggestions:

I'd start with promising them you won't keep a rooster or a buck. You maybe should rent a buck when it's time -or take your doe(s) to visit one.

The poo waste can be composted - compost smells lovely when it's done properly. neigbors may even appreciate free compost.

Livestock animals will not entice predators any more than a foofie pomeranian in a diamond studded collar or an outdoor kitty kitty will - they are all meat to predators.

Nuisance animals are attracted to songbird feed as well as chicken scratch - so unless feeding wild birds is a problem, feeding domesticated ones should not be.

Good luck with all of this.

[Triffin]

Local ordinances say that anyone with over an acre of land can keep livestock with permission of the board of health.


Sounds like you're in the clear ..
You've done well to notify your immediate neighbors of your plans ..
and the fact that one has 'ducks' should help your cause ..
Good luck Jul 9th ..

Triff ..

[Feral Nature]

I have too many roosters and my goats "greet me" when I walk outside. My guinea alarms and my turkey gobbles. My dogs bark any time of the day or night they want to but it is authoratative barking, and meaningful...not idiotic yapping. I shoot things, kill things, cook things.

I do anything I want.

I was out here first.

As civilization approaches, I get older, ornerier, and meaner. "They" can just leave this woman alone. I'm not worth the tangle.

I know what they can do with that list in the original post.