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Old 06/20/07, 01:54 AM
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Doe deliver over 12 hours ago - still pawing ground?

Our ff 1/2 nubian doe delivered early this morning (we found them still wet at 7:00am). She was still pawing the ground less then an hour ago (over 14 hours later).

Any idea why this is? She was squatting without any pee coming out for a long time so I sat and worked in her stall (on my laptop) until she squatted and peed. A ton came out so I was relieved (i'm sure she was, as well).

I am a little worried that she retained a placenta and maybe a dead kid? No foul smell but why would she still paw?

She has somewhat weak mothering instincts so I wonder if she is just confused. She lets the babies nurse, which is good, but if I open the door - she runs out and leaves them. Even if they bawl, she ignores it. Not sure I'll be breeding this doe again if the instincts don't kick in. Of course, it is her first time.....

Does everyone fuss over their babies/does every Spring? My wife says I'm a nervous dad every time!!

Ok - its midnight and I need to go to bed!

Cliff

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Old 06/20/07, 07:27 AM
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I would definitely check her ... make sure no kid or "cleanings" are being retained. If thats all okay..you are dealing with a first time momma? She is nervous. Just like some two legged mommas are nervous with their first kid.

Give her some time .. and help the kids and her get used to the idea of them nursing them. Did she clean up the kids when they were born..or did you? Mommas cleaning up their kids is the bonding experience. I know people are sometimes anxious to get the kids cleaned up .. and help mom out..but really, I think we should let mom do that.

Hope this helps..good luck with the new kids!

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Old 06/20/07, 10:40 AM
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I don't know why she'd still be pawing the ground. But for the weak mothering skills, I can tell you what I did with one of my does. My alpineX (first freshener) showed absolutely no interest in her doeling, but did not try to hurt her, and did let her nurse. I kept them locked in the stall together, ever watchful in case her temperment changed, for a week. On the baby's first adventure into the corral (at the end of the week of confinement) with the other goats, momma became instantly attentive. If the baby let out a peep of any kind, momma RAN to see what was up. I think the week together help them bond. This doe has turned out to be an exceptional mom.

Kitty

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Old 06/20/07, 10:56 AM
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Have you bumped her belly to see if she's got another one in there? A dead kid doesn't "respond" to the uterine contractions and position itself for birth like a live kid does, so the dead kids can be malpresented (like lying crossways).

I sure remember feeling those after birth contractions when my kids were born, they hurt like the dickens. I also wonder if she's just feeling her uterus involute/contract and is pawing the ground out of instinct, thinking "Oh dear, here comes another one!"

I'd bump her belly for sure. I'm a complete goat/kidding novice (one kidding season) FWIW, but when I bumped my does "between" kids, I could so easily feel that second kid rebounding against my bumping.

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Old 06/20/07, 12:00 PM
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I bumped her belly and it felt empty. Also, she seemed to like that so I lifted and massaged it repeatedly and this made a bunch of gutty looking crud come out. She seems ok now.

Thank you!
Cliff <------------ goat belly masseur

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Old 06/20/07, 12:07 PM
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"Gutty looking crud"...Now that just sounds nasty. Glad she's better now.

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Old 06/20/07, 01:30 PM
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Old 06/20/07, 02:25 PM
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Has she stopped pawing the ground?

Maybe she was worn out, having contractions to pass the afterbirth, but the massaging helped get it out....

I dont know, but be VERY careful of any more pawing or pushing type stuff... we lost our FAVORITE doe this year to a retained kid. She's already had triplets. And I did the "bump" thing to feel more kids, and she felt empty. I could just CRY talking about this, but I dont want it to happen to you too.

Keep her locked up for however many days it takes to totally accept those kids.

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Old 06/20/07, 02:26 PM
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Hopefully she is fine. have you ever bounced before and know what you are feeling for? I found one of my does pawing and then she went down and was kicking the ground and lets just sai she was in big pain. Well 20 hours after the first two were born, I pulled another baby. YEP 20 hours later, and she is alive to this day. I had to revive her but she made it and had twins this year. Give Mom some calcium also. I gave my doe human calcium and I crushed it up into powder and she ate about 20 pills worth. Good Luck.

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Old 06/20/07, 03:00 PM
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If that doe were mine, I'd scrub up well and go in and make 100% certain that there is not another kid. This is retained material behavior.

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Old 06/20/07, 08:50 PM
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Ok, I'll go in tonight.

Yuck - have never done that and she is a wiggly screamer!

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Old 06/20/07, 09:05 PM
 
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Has she passed the afterbirth? they will still paw the ground due to contractions to pass the afterbirth.

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Old 06/20/07, 09:07 PM
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I honestly don't know. I called "the goat lady" for advice and she told me not to worry about it unless she goes off her food etc. When I left this morning (for work) she had a long string of goo hanging out so I expected that she would pass it while I was at work today.

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Old 06/20/07, 11:47 PM
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Um, I would do it now. Even if it's 3 AM and hailing outside, do it ASAP. You would not believe how quickly a doe can go downhill if there is a retained kid, and the cervix closes tighter with every hour that passes. I came very close to losing two does this way, and I had to help a friend out with a ewe that had a dead retained lamb. The ewe wasn't noticed right away, and by the time I got to her, she was hot as a furnace in there. P.U.! With a fever like that, I was pretty worried about her, and even after we got the lamb out, she died. Infection.

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Old 06/20/07, 11:55 PM
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Oh, BTW: if there is a person with small, strong hands, have them do it. Scrub well, trim fingernails ultra-short. The doe should be restrained in a milking stand or tied up short in a corner, ideally with a helper nearby, but it can be done by one person. Use plenty of clean olive oil to lube the hand and forearm (yeah, the forearm). Shape fingers into a cone and gently go into the doe. The less of your hand that goes into her while getting the job done, the better, and the less lacerated she gets, the better (infection). This is why small hands are preferable- can your wife do it? Feel carefully forward, if the cervix is closing, you will feel the rim of it. You don't want to tear the cervix if you can help it. Through the cervix (at times you may only be able to get a single finger or two into it), if there is a kid you should be able to feel it. If there is no kid, you will feel only something similar to wet, squishy earlobes, or it will feel roomy and empty. If you feel a kid, and have trouble getting it out....here, I'll PM you my phone number.

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Old 06/21/07, 12:21 AM
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On the fingernails ultra-short thing? If you can scratch your nose at all, they're too long.

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Old 06/21/07, 02:05 AM
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I think she passed the afterbirth. Her back end is now clean and she is not pawing or acting strangely at all. She is now acting very motherly too so I guess she was bugged by the afterbirth being in there?

Her babies are sure cute!!

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Old 06/21/07, 09:41 AM
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Good to hear, I hope that is all it was. So do you have any pictures of those cute babies? You know you can share!!!!

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