Hmmm... is she pregnant?

[cjb]

I dropped three does off to run with a buck starting Jan 6th for 4 weeks. Two of the does are obviously pregnant - one of which is ginormous! The third, unfortunately, developed several tumors on her milk bag and looks to be in declining health. I put this on another thread but vet and a breeder said that is not CL but probably cancer. We could have the tumors removed and tested but at great expense. We have decided to take a wait-and-see attitude.

A month ago, the vet palpatated her belly and said "probably not pregnant". Two weeks ago, the breeder felt her tummy and said the same. However, now that we are within 135 days of first exposure.. she is bagging up a little. The udder looks funny because of the tumors but it is definitely enlarging. When I feel her tummy just in front of her udder, it is now hard, not soft, and her sides are slightly larger then they were. I assume that she could have cycled towards the end of that 4 week period which could put her as far as 5-6 weeks out from delivery and maybe having a single?

The other question will be- do I let her nurse the baby for collostrum, then remove it and bottle feed? She is generally tired but happy and has nasty bumps on her udders. If she has a doe, she will not be used for breeding/milking because the Mama's mother died from some growth on her udders so this is likely an inherited cancer of some sort.

Advice from all you Divas of Goatdom, please!! Well.. the guys too.

Cliff

[mygoat]

First off, get your herd tested. Testing isn't that expensive. And I don't know of a cancer that is that readily spread genetically, though I could be wrong. It doesn't sound like CL, but maybe CAE?

Also, I'd pull kids asap from at least the odd-uddered doe. Find a dairy (cow or goat) that has a johne's neg. tested farm and ask for some colostrum. They'll most likely be able to sell you some.

I'd say post some clear pictures of thier, erm, 'anatomy' and a good picture from the top, front, or back showing how wide they are. A pic from behind at goat level is usually good, because then you often get udder development in the pic. The pic of the 'anatomy' helps because the placement of the anus and length/shape of vulva is a VERY good indicator of pregnancy in goats.

[PygmyLover]

CAE mygoat? never heard of CAE causing tomur like masses. And yes testing is expensive around here - $114.00 for one goat! so you can't say across the board that testing is inexpensive. CL is found in locations of a gland - the udder is the mammary gland. But if they are not abcesses then I would go on the tomor theory you have from the vet.

And if cancer in humans can be genetic why can't it be in goats? like breast cancer - udder cancer. Sounds simular to me. Of course not all cancer is genetic I know that.

Yes pictures of her vulva will help those of us who are familiar with the pooch test to tell you if she is pregnant or not. Just post them from photobucket via a url so that only those who want to see them can.

[cjb]

I'll post THOSE pics from home so the IT folks here at work don't think that I'm a sicko ;-)

The tumors are solid - not abcesses - no fluid. They look scraped up right now because she sits on them etc because they are large.

The breeder that came by has been breeding Obers in this area for something like 20 years and she said that they are tumors. It may be a coincidence that her mother has a tumor on her udders, but I suspect not.

I take a pic of her hoo hoo and post it, then blush and turn all shades of red from embarassment. ;-)

[PygmyLover]

yah someone said - you into goat porn??? *blush blush*

[cjb]

and I'll say "Naaaaahhhhhh" sounding like a goat, of course...

[mygoat]

haha. Goat porn is what me and a friend call it when we send example pics of the doe's hind end to each other, asking wether we think the other's doe is preggo or not. hehe.

I didn't see 'masses'. I thought it was a mass, as CAE can cause a hard udder. Oopsie, my mistake.

And pygmylover, do you have someone do your testing for you? I pay 15.00 per goat for three tests to be done (I had CL, CAE, and Johne's diseases done), but I draw it and send it myself. Plus the cost of shipping for all the blood vials from my entire herd. Probably comes out to be like 16.00 per goat. I think I'll only be doing 2 tests per goat this year, so that'll be 10.00 per goat. So pretty much inexpensive if you go it that way. Drawing blood isn't that hard at all, last year was my first time drawing blood, and I've got it pretty much down, now.

[cjb]

Can you describe this "look" so I don't have to post goat "v" shots? ;-)

I have an open doe that is milking and two that are definitely pregnant so I could compare her to each, right?

Do goats ever do the false pregnant thing? I wondered if she might be. Sad that she has tumors - she is our sweetest goatie

[PygmyLover]

Yes i have to have a vet do it. I don't know how to draw blood. And most people don't so that is why I said you might not want to keep saying that it is cheep. it maybe for you and for those who know how to draw blood but it is an art I have not learned.

[mygoat]

That is really expensive to have a vet do the job! 115 per goat! Mine was gonna charge 5.00 to draw the blood, per goat, if I brought them in. I guess it depends on the area. But if you're willing to learn how to do the blood drawing, it is cheap. Well, you'll need syringes and needles and the glass vials, but that adds up to maybe 30.00? And the vials come in packs of 100, so you can do quite a few goats. Quite a few people on this forum helped me to learn, and it's not hard, so if cost is an issue with vet bills, I'm sure you could get answers/help here.

Anywho, the 'look' for a preggo doe is that the anus would be dropped low, not nicely tucked under the tail. Look at a doe that's kidded in the last few months and compare that doe to the suspected preggo ones. Thier vulva should be longer and placed lower, as well. Also, in does that are far along as well, I've noticed that when they lay down, thier 'area' pooches out and dialates slightly... more so with my heavily carrying does and my mini does, lol. This 'look' gets quite obvious the more goats you have preggo. I can even start to tell around a month preggo, once you get used to the does you keep. Does will usually start an udder 4-8 weeks before kidding. Mine tend to start thiers around 6 weeks till duedate. Keep in mind that all does are different, however.

[PygmyLover]

at least it is good I don't care about those tests. I like to rescue goats - hope to do more in the future..........never plan on having a closed herd and only have unregistard goats.

[cjb]

I looked at her 'parts' and I don't think she's pregnant. It looks just like the nonpreg female while the other two that are clearly toting are sort of drawn out and loose looking.

I'm a little nauseous now.. ;-)

[marcir]

Hi MyGoat,
Where do you buy your blood vials? I haven't been able to locate a source.
Thanks,
Marci in Nor California