Using Copper Sulfate instead of Boluses?

[Alice In TX/MO]

Would you please post here if you use Copper Sulfate instead of boluses? I printed out the page of info from the U-Say Ranch website that is referenced in several threads, but I'd like to know if anyone is actually doing it this way.

[full sun]

I use copper sulfate. I would prefer to bolus, because you do it and then you don't have to think about it again for months. But it is difficult to do. SO I have been drenching with the copper sulfate, water and some syrup. I have one goat who refuses any type of food with a copper top dress. So I have to force it. >sigh< It's a pain to do every week, but it has to be done! I have tried to administer the copper rods that are in the bolus as a drench, but it didn't work. I put the rods in syrup and a little water, but the rods wouldn't go down the drenching tube. Next, I will attempt to put the rods in marshmallow and hope that she swallows it whole.

But anyway, the copper sulfate does work. Good luck!

Jennifer

[Jillis]

I use copper sulfate powder. I top dress their grain and minerals with enough to give each goat about 1/7 of a tsp. a day, give or take. My goats do just fine with this.

[dezeeuwgoats]

I mix copper sulfate in with their Sweetlix Magnamilk Caprine mineral. I also bolus with Copasure the goats who still show signs of deficiency.

Niki

[hornless]

I use sulfate. It is So much easier than bolus, and my sheep can stay with goats that way...

[ONThorsegirl]

Where do you guys get this copper? Any type I need to give my doe some of what ever I can get ahold of but where do you get it? any brand names? Anything you can give?

Melissa

[full sun]

I can't remember if mine came from jeffers or hoeggers....

The dosage is 1 teaspoon per head per week.

Jennifer

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

There is no dosage for copper sulfate. Please read the information on saanendoah.com she did extensive studies and research on real live goats with copper liver biopsy proof, why blood testing does not work, why copper sulfate will not work and can actually do harm and why you have to use copper oxide boluses.

Add copper sulfate to your water it will keep alge down, but make sure you know less is more, adding alot and you can harm your does rumen, which in turn decreases her immune levels...all when what you are trying to do is the opposite. Please be careful where you get information from....are they testing, is this information applicable for your area, for your type of livestock, where did they get their information from. Vicki

[Jillis]

Hi Vicki! Looks like we are both up late tonight!

I have so much respect for your knowledge and experience---I would turn to you for advice and guidance before anyone else I know, I'm telling the truth.

But when I started giving my girls the copper sulfate, all the health problems and hair problems and cocci problems I was having with my herd gradually VANISHED. Within weeks. I had read about it in Pat Coleby's "Natural Goat Care" and she had cited some studies done on the use of it. Of course, I make sure my goats get a good mineral mix and kelp powder as well as BOSS---so I feel certain that the other minerals necessary for absorption of copper are present in thier diet.

I know that you have to sift through Coleby's book, not all of it is necessarily to be taken as goat gospel. But the copper sulfate, in my admittedly anecdotal and extremely limited experience, really caused the turn around for my herd. They were from an extremely deficient herd. My other goats that did not come from the dairy did not have the difficulties the ones from the dairy had.

I post this in deep humbleness, because I know you really have a tremendous amount of experience and knowledge.

[Jillis]

BTW, I don't add the copper sulfate to my goat's water. I feed it through with their ration. I don't have a lot of goats so I can observe whether or not everyone is getting about the same amount of ration---they usually do. Before this, when I started using it, I just put 1/7 of a tsp. on each goat's tongue daily. They have to swallow it as the powder sticks to their mouths and tongues.

[full sun]

Vicki--Neat website, thanks for suggesting it. I also got my copper supplement info from Natural Goat Care by Pat Coleby. I will continue my experimentation with how to get the bolus down the throat. Unfortunately, the 2 copper deficient goats that I have are NDs and their mouths are tiny... In the meantime, I will continue the copper sulfate. It does make a difference, I can see it in their coat. So it is being absorbed....

Jennifer

[moonspinner]

Jillis, what was the nature of your health problems that cleared w/ the copper sulfate? I find this very interesting. So many breeders I've talked to say they never had so many copper problems as this year. I've never had bare noses like this and possibly a few other problems might be related to deficiency.

[susanne]

the most obvious symptom that can be seen with adding copper, is the color of the coat. it gets much more vibrant and is shinning. i think one reason is that the parasite load is getting minimized.

[Jillis]

Originally Posted by moonspinner

Jillis, what was the nature of your health problems that cleared w/ the copper sulfate? I find this very interesting. So many breeders I've talked to say they never had so many copper problems as this year. I've never had bare noses like this and possibly a few other problems might be related to deficiency.

I had bought 10 dairy babies from a very large goat dairy hereabouts. They came from beautiful stock, some purebred, some grade, nice milking stock, but apparently very deficient in mineral nutrition.

They came to me with severe and persistant coccidiosis, that I treated again and again and kept on coming back. It didn't help that as a newbie, I used a grain and mineral that was labeled for both sheep and goats. Very low in copper. The goats also got pnuemonia---twice! Then they started getting very funky fur---one actually got a very motheaten look to her. The spectacle look---like pale eyeglasses around the eyes, bald noses and ear tips with no evidence of parasites on the skin...
Also, they were not what we like to call "thrifty", they weren't growing out well. It was the motheaten kid that got me online looking for answers.
When I finally got them established on a good goat grain mix and the Sweetlix minerals for goats, I did see improvement. But it wasn't until I gave them the copper sulfate daily, 1/7 of a tsp. as per Pat Coleby, that the real turnaround began.
I have not had one single case of cocci that needed to be treated, the hair is luxuriant, and many of them darkened considerably! Some developed black markings that hadn't had any before. I had one pure white goat that I have since sold who actually developed two black markings on her face, as did my little gold Nigie. The black goats had been getting reddish in their coloring, and this reveresed---they darkened back to their beautiful shiny black again.
My goats are well-grown, have not been sick AT ALL this year, and almost everyone who sees them is impressed with their health, beauty, and calm personalities. Well, calm for goats, that is! I know three separate goat owners who have siblings to some of my goats from the same birth, and in each case, my goats are larger, healthier and in better condition than their siblings.

The copper is also very important for reproductive issues, as I understand it. I have a friend who is new to goats, who is raising Nigerian Dwarfs. She has not supplemented copper, and this year she had more malpresented and stillborn babies than you can imagine! I told her to supplement the copper as some of her goats have the spectacle look to them. Frankly, most of our goat herds are so deficient in this important mineral that there is no way 1/7 of a tsp. daily could hurt them. Goats apparently have a much higher need for and tolerance of copper than previously realized. I have muddled through some of those scholarly treatises on this subject, the ones with the million dollar words, and it only confirms that we need to supplement copper in conjunction with the correct proportion of other minerals in an absorbable form for optimal goat health. Either the copper sulfate powder or the copper oxide boluses.

Apparently, parasites do not like to be hosted by a goat with good copper levels either, another plus!

The dark goats, just like dark people, seem to need a LOT more copper than fair goats (or fair people). Indeed, when I hold some out in my hand, the dark goats keep on gobbling while the light goats are not interested.

I sure hate to disagree in any way with Vicki, I respect her knowledge very highly! But in this one particular, I am very happy with the results of the copper sulfate powder.

[Sweet Goats]

OK, I am confused. Where do you get it?

[Milk n' Honey]

I would be interested to know how long you all have been using the Copper Sulfate powder on your goats. As Vicki mentioned, it can actually do harm and it may not be safe to for humans to handle either. I think you should consider reading the article, at the link below, for more understanding on this substance. It isn't just copper. I admit I don't know much about it at all and I haven't used the stuff but I have to think there would be a safer way. An easier way than the boluses would be nice. BTW, the reason that your parasite load is less is because you are giving daily doses of pesticide to your goat. This is the same stuff used to spray agricultural fields and orchards. I wash my fruit with soapy water before eating it...LOL. Anyway, if someone felt they had to used it, I would think short term. In a couple more years of using it, the herd turn-around could go the other way. I don't mean to be a downer but how much do we know about the long-term effects on our herds with this stuff and are we willing to risk cutting our herd's lifespan in half possibly? Hmmmmm......maybe the boluses would be better. Read the article and see what you think.

http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/coppersu.htm

[BlueHeronFarm]

I'm a big fan of "do whatever works for you" but will weigh in that the bolusing was not that hard to do. We did it for the first time about a month ago - 7 goats - and only two of them took us more than three tries. (Crafty little gals...)

For me, personally, the bolus twice a year is way easier than any daily top-dressing, or whatever. ...just my 2 cents - very happy with our first bolusing. Coats look great, milk production is getting better.

[Milk n' Honey]

Only twice a year? That's it? Geez, I can handle that. I thought it would be weekly or something. Are those calf boluses or what?

[BlueHeronFarm]

We buy the calf boluses, but break them down and repackage to appropraite doses.
Here is where we got our info - it was thoughtfully shared by DocM - another HT member.

http://www.u-sayranch.com/goats/copper.html

[Gailann Schrader]

If you really want to use it?

Pool supply houses. Rural King has it for pool use.

Easy to get.