Dead 4 wk old buckling? - Homesteading Today
You are Unregistered, please register to use all of the features of Homesteading Today!    
Homesteading Today

Go Back   Homesteading Today > Livestock Forums > Goats


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 04/20/07, 07:37 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: georgia
Posts: 2,056
Dead 4 wk old buckling?

I had a buckling dead this Am.He is one of triplets and was the biggest one.He was fine yesterday morning .When I went to check about 7 pm last night he was acting like his tummy hurt sort of hunched and a little bit bloated no temp. They have been nibblilng a bit of everything.No diarrhea we gave him some baking soda and probios and when I checked a couple of hours later he was resting.Went out this Am and he was dead.What could I have done different and what could have happened?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04/20/07, 07:42 AM
Slave To Many Animals
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,970
Was he peeing? It could have been Urinary Calculi, we had a run in with that, it's where they have something blocking their peepee, and so they can't pee, then their bladder bursts, and they die, unless you can get rid of the blockage, massaging sometimes works, but the best thing to do is to get them to a vet. I'm sorry that you lost the little guy, it sucks when the little ones go. One more question though, was he bloated out from his sides, or bloated with his belly hanging down towards the ground? If it was not a normal looking bloat, out from the sides, it could have been UC. Good Luck with the mama, and her other babies. Don't blame yourself, there's no reason too, you did everything you knew to, and I'm sure he was very loved. Bye.
__________________
-Goat Freak-
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04/20/07, 08:05 AM
BlueHeronFarm's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,370
It could have beeen enterotoxemia. We had a 7 week old move from bloat to entero. No fever.

Sorry for your loss.

You could consider having a necropsy done to see what it was.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04/20/07, 08:18 AM
Hallelujah Dairy
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 145
This is the perfect age for enterotoxemia...........make sure you have c&d antitoxin on hand next time you think bloat in this age range of your kids. Normally it will kill quickly.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04/20/07, 08:40 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: georgia
Posts: 2,056
Is the anti-toxin the same as the vaccine? We don't usually vaccinate the bucklings as alot of the meat buyers don't want anything in the meat. If it was enterotoxemia will my other bucklings get it? Should I go ahead and vaccinate them?This is just my third round of kidding and we haven't had any other problems so far (as far as sickness goes).
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04/20/07, 08:58 AM
Idahoe's Avatar
Menagerie More~on
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: It won't stop raining
Posts: 2,045
I lost a five week old buckling to entero two weeks ago myself. Same scenario you describe, big healthy boy fine at his bottle time and dead three hours later.

No the antitoxin and vaccine are not the same. The antitoxin is used as an emergency treatment when you suspect enterotoxemia or if your animal is not vaccinated or you aren't sure, and gets an injury.

The bacteria that causes entero is everywhere, even normal flora in goats. Just because one had it doesn't necessarily mean others will get it, but your question about the meat goat part I'll let someone else answer for you.

From what I've read and heard from others on the forum this strikes the healthiest and biggest kids, and especially in such a young kid, the form entero takes goes so fast your first sign you have it is a dead kid.

What I did is immediately gave tetanus vaccine boosters to all the rest of my herd, and gave first vaccine tetanus to the other two kids, who have been just fine.

It's really upsetting, isn't it? I'm sorry you lost him, and hope you get your other questions answered .
__________________
It may be that our sole purpose in life is simply to be kind to others.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04/20/07, 09:10 AM
Hallelujah Dairy
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 145
Here is an article by a dear friend of mine. Remember at the 4 week age babies are starting to eat grain and hay pretty good and this is where the over-eaters disease comes from. Hope this helps you some.

Spring is a dangerous time of the year for enterotoxemia because so many animals are let out on the new, lush Spring grass and bloat is common under such circumstances. The problem is, bloat is often just the beginning of the problem. Enterotoxemia is a common secondary invader that follows on its heels. You need to be prepared now to give any goat that does become bloated from eating the Spring grass a dose of antitoxin preventatively when this happens, as a stitch in time saves nine, and it is easier to prevent this disease than to treat it!

The Clostridial (enterotoxemia) organisms are always present in the goat's gut, right along with everything else. They usually cause no trouble because they just keep passing on out of the system in the feces. The gut activity needs to be stopped by something else for a long enough time to give those little bugs a chance to build up sufficient numbers to cause Enterotoxemia. Some of the gut-stoppers that are common precursors to Entero are grass bloat, too much carbohydrate, as in heavy feedings of milk replacers or milk/replacer + grain (slow to digest), Floppy Kid Syndrome, etc...

Some may have noticed that whenever anyone mentions that an animal has bloat or grain overload or etc. I suggest, as a part of the corrective measures, that he/she administer a hefty dose of Enterotoxemia Antitoxin ASAP. Owners often resist (as in ignore) that part of the treatment because they don't keep Entero Antitoxin on hand and they know (or the vet has said) it is bloat, etc., not Entero... (!)

When the problem begins, that's no doubt true. And if the animal is current on all its CD/T vaccinations and over 4 months of age that still may be true. But any older animal that has not had its yearly boosters is at risk, as is a yearling that did not receive at least 2 vaccinations no earlier than 2 months of age AND a booster at 6 months of age has NO antibodies left at 1 year of age!

The key here is that it takes just a few days (maybe 5 or so at the most) for whatever has stopped up the gut initially (such as FKS or grain overload or too much milk replacer or grass bloat or whatever) that to turn into full-blown enterotoxemia. You see, when the naturally occurring clostridial organisms stop passing routinely out of that now stopped-up rumen it takes that long for them to multiply within the rumen until they are in sufficient number to create Enterotoxemia in the gut.

Enterotoxemia, by the way, is a disease caused by the overproduction of toxins by the Clostridium perfringens organisms that are found naturally in the rumen of the goat. As they multiply in the rumen, which they will do if it is slowed or shut down for any reason, the toxins quickly reach the level where they start to destroy the intestinal walls, eventually passing through them and into the peritoneal cavity where they systematically begin shutting the organs down, killing the host. It is a very painful way to die.

It is incredibly rewarding to me to learn that more and more owners have actually avoided enterotoxemia by giving the Antitoxin preventatively when the goat's gut is compromised in this manner. By comparison, it's so sad to learn of goats that have died unnecessarily but could have been saved, only because people (INCLUDING many vets!) didn't realize the danger inherent in a stopped up gut and prepare ahead to have Antitoxin on hand for such emergencies.

Addendum: Keep in mind that the CD Antitoxin has only one function. That is to destroy on contact any entero toxins detected in the gut. So if, due to the animal's own immune system having sufficient antibodies present, there are NO entero toxins developing in the stopped-up gut, it has no other role to play and will just dissipate from the goat's system.

6/3/02-I basically assumed, when I wrote the article above, that every one would automatically know precisely how to go about acquiring the Clostridium Perfringens types C&D Antitoxin! Sorry about that!

I have since discovered that many goat owners are not aware that:

(A) this med, along with many other veterinary meds, is NOT a PRESCRIPTION item, and
(B) because so many people don't know about enterotoxemia at all (assuming that when their sheep dies of bloat, it really did die of bloat), most feed stores (who sell things in volume) are never asked for it, thus have never seen the need to keep the product in stock.

So, if you are a person that is not sure how to locate the enterotoxemia antitoxin, here is some assistance for you:

PBS (1-800-321-0235) and order CD Antitoxin, #20-20213, $25.79,
Jeffers (1-800-533-3377) and order C&D Antitoxin #A9-C3-25, $24.45
KV Vet Supply (1-800-423-8211) and order Clostratox BCD Antitoxin #19111, $27.95.
Valley Vet Supply (1-800-468-0059) and order C&D Antitoxin #16341, $23.99

These are the catalogs I have in my possession that carry it, although other people may have sources I have missed...

Sue Reith
Carmelita Toggs
Bainbridge Island WA
E-Mail: suereith@msn.com
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04/20/07, 09:14 AM
Hallelujah Dairy
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 145
Addendum: FYI: Banamine kills the pain and cuts inflammation created by the toxins as they do their damage to the gut walls (whatever else you do, do not substitute dexamethasone for Banamine, as it will shut down the immune system while reducing the inflammation!); BoSe stimulates the body's own immune system so it can help itself to get better while you help it from outside; Penicillin does its part to help kill off the toxins, but is not strong enough to do that without the help of the antitoxin; electrolytes keep up the body's natural chemical balance so it won't die of dehydration while you are trying to kill off the entero; baking soda reverses the acidosis created by the toxins as they destroy the walls of the intestines; and Pepto Bismol coats the intestinal walls to help protect them from further damage by the toxins.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04/20/07, 09:16 AM
Hallelujah Dairy
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 145
No vaccinations (toxoids, bacterins) given before 2 months
of age will infer proper permanent immunity on the kids they are given to.
It takes the body 2 months to mature enough to start making its own
antibodies, so before 2 months of age Antitoxins are the only things that
will be effective in a crisis.

Enterotoxemia: Clostridial organisms are multiplying in a static
(non-moving) rumen, generally caused by bloat or heavy carbohydrate
ingestion, most often in young kids under 2 months that are not yet
vaccinated for Enterotoxemia. The only way to save a goat's life is to
administer Clostridium Perfringens CD Antitoxin ASAP. Supportive therapy
must also be provided for 5 days, in the form of Penicillin, Probios,
Electrolytes, Pepto Bismol, Banamine.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04/20/07, 09:53 AM
Sweet Goats's Avatar
Cashmere goats
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: CO
Posts: 2,023
Man, it seems like this year I have heard of more babies getting enterotoxemia then I have ever heard before. Is there a reason for that?
I am so sorry for your loss.
__________________
Raising Beautiful Cashmere goats, to produce the best quality cashmere.
www.freewebs.com/sweetgoats
Lori
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04/20/07, 11:20 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: georgia
Posts: 2,056
Thanks everybody.The info is very helpful.I have also done some research on my own and I do think it was entero.I am ordering the antitoxin today!! I called the vet and they don't routinely treat goats so they don't keep antitoxin on hand (I was going to get a couple of doses to keep on hand) We are in a horse and cattle area and I have to rely pretty much on this board and some of the web sites for good info on goats.Thanks again and any other insight is appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04/20/07, 12:27 PM
BlueHeronFarm's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,370
We managed to save our doeling, but only because a neighbor had the antitoxin. We have learned you should ALWAYS have it in the fridge when you have kids. Our feed stores carry it, as does TSC, usually.

To make it scarier - our doeling most definitely did not "overeat" (we control milk & feed pretty closely as overeager newbies) AND she had already received the first of her CD/T shots. It can still happen. Once the gut is compromised, it can be a secondary issue that sets in quickly. Ours started as bloat, we think from eating green grass in her pen.

I am so sorry about your little guy. It is a hard thing to go through, but you will know what it is if you ever see it again, and that is the best you can take away from this.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04/20/07, 02:58 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Eureka, California area
Posts: 2,642
In addition, the antitoxin is CHEAP when you compare the costs of losing kids.
__________________
Joan Crandell
Wild Iris Farm
"Fair"- the other 4 letter F word." This epiphany came after almost 10 days straight at our county fair.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04/20/07, 07:41 PM
materursa's Avatar  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NH
Posts: 38
I'm new, and don't actually have any goats quite yet, but I'm a little confused. If before 2 months kids' systems aren't developed enough to develop an immunity to whatever it is that you're vaccinating for, they why do you start vaccinating before that?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04/20/07, 08:11 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: western NY
Posts: 1,507
A friend just lost her 7 week old buck in the same way. He was running around the night before; the next morning bloated and gone.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04/22/07, 02:47 AM
Cloverbud's Avatar  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: WI/IL Stateline
Posts: 1,292
Quote:
Originally Posted by materursa
I'm new, and don't actually have any goats quite yet, but I'm a little confused. If before 2 months kids' systems aren't developed enough to develop an immunity to whatever it is that you're vaccinating for, they why do you start vaccinating before that?
The immunity kids aquire from mom wears off at a different rate in each kid. Since there's not a little Butterball turkey timer that pops up when their mom-given immunity wears off, we vaccinate in a series starting at the earliest time the immunity could have worn off. The hope is that at least one of the vaccines will be given at the right time. In puppies & kittens it wears off between 6-12 weeks; which is why their vaccine series usually starts at 6 weeks old, with the last vaccine given after 12 weeks.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:56 AM.
Contact Us - Homesteading Today - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top - ©Carbon Media Group Agriculture