Call the vet or do it myself?

[mousebandit]

Hey everyone. Newbie question here.

Should I let the vet go ahead and disbud my kids on Monday, or should I hurry up and order a rhinehart and do it myself? I'm getting worried now that they're too old (2 weeks will sneak up on us tomorrow!). They're kiko/ boer cross kids.

I'm not sure if the vet has actually done disbudding before. He's young ,and likes goats, and I know he's interested in learning all he can, I just don't know how much hands on experience he's had so far.

He's charging $20 for the house visit, and $25 fee per kid. So, for what I'm going to pay him, I could get a Rhinehart (which one would I get?) and I still have another doe due anytime, so I would end up ahead financially. I know I could do the job, but I'm getting worried on the time frame now.

Also, what are your thoughts on castration vs. banding; do it yourself vs. vet; and how old are they when you do it? If I have the vet do it, what should I expect him to charge?

Thanks you guys - I SOOOOO appreciate your experience and knowledge!!

Tracey Mouse (in So. Oregon)

[suzyhomemaker09]

Is there any reason you couldn't bring the kids to the vet?
Local vet here charged us $20 each to do it before we got our dehorner.

[HazyDay]

get a breeder who has done it hunreds of times! I had one come last year for only 15.00. This year I took them to a friends who did it for free. Im just letting them borrow it for thier! I will be banding. alot easier and no cutting. what ever people say im not cutting aroung in their! Its bad i have to touch them to band them! (sorry just a germ freak!)

[topside1]

How about using other goat folks or goat club members in your area for less,,,plus includes training.

[BlueHeronFarm]

Having just done disbudding the first time, (well, my husband did it) I would recommend you have someone show you how rather than try it on your own the first time. It's pretty upsetting the first time and you'll want reassurance that you are doing/have done it correctly. See if maybe a breeder near you can show you - if you are not sure the vet has ever done it.

[Jim S.]

It's pretty upsetting the first time...

Yep. For you and the kid. And although it gets less upsetting for the human over time, it is always upsetting for the kids. A pity it has to be done at all. Let's see, we are going to take a hot iron and press it into the head of an unanesthetized young animal. Yeah.. I'm really up for that.

In most European countries, it is illegal to disbud or dehorn any animal unless anesthetic is used. (I know, I know..."But this is Ahmurica!" )

I didn't come to this viewpoint through a pure aversion to doing it myself... I have done it, and I also have scooped out calf horn buds with a horn cutter. I just decided that the only people who should do these things without anesthetic are folks who have pressed the hot iron, or used the horn cutter, on their own heads first. Since I wasn't willing to do that, I quit the practice.

For those who are members of misguided breed associations that demand such practices, please have it done under anesthetic.

OK, pardon me now while I put on my flameproof undies!

[shezaruby]

That sounds so cruel. All my goats have horns.

[Sher]

Jim.."flameproof" undies..lol..you better make em "bomb proof"!

On the serious side...I don't like or believe in dehorning. That's just me. Can you get hurt on horns? you bet.

I just am an old fashioned thinker I guess. I try to step back and think..why did God put em on there? And If He put em on there..I am thinking it was for a reason. Do I have to know the reason? No.

Sold two dexter heifers recently..horned...not any more. Makes me kinda sick. There are "naturally polled" animals. In the dexter world..they seem to bring more money..so by golly everyone gets around that by taking perfectly good horns off..so they can have their, um, er, "unnaturally polled" animals.

I know people gotta do it. But at least be honest..no way are they having it done and bouncing around and NOT feeling it. Heck .. they don't have a choice!

move over Jim..got ice?

[mousebandit]

We live about 30 miles from nowhere, and there's one breeder out here and two other people I know with goats. I called the breeder and she is older and her husband just passed away, and she didn't offer. She said she used to train people, but quit because they all kept coming back with scurs and she was tired of messing with it. (The spurs were because the owners didn't do a thorough job, not because of her training, LOL!) She recommended I ask this new vet. He is a "mobile" vet, so I can't take the goats to him. He's also really young, probably not more than 21.

I'm also wondering if 2 weeks is like the "cut off" date for being able to successfully disbud them?

Of the other two people out here, one keeps her goats horned, and is kind of new herself, and the other I've been warned not to get involved with her, as she doesn't care for her herd, and the animal services is always getting called on her. So, I don't think I want to try and look her up!

I'm thinking at this point, if 2 weeks is indeed the "last safe date", that maybe I should just let these two keep their horns? I have a mixed herd right now, and the bucklings will all end up as dinner, so I guess it's not crucial long-term that they are dehorned. I've got one nubian doe that I want to breed, and she is dehorned. I've got these two kiko/boer mamas that I want to keep, and so far one kiko/boer doeling that I'd like to keep.

If they are 2 weeks old tomorrow, and the vet can't come until Monday, is that still a "safe" time for it to be done?

And, if I don't do it at all, what problems or management issues should I be expecting in the next year with the wethers and the does?

Thanks!!

[Jim S.]

Sher, yeah I just picked up a cooler full of ice...so I'm ready. I understand the reasons for disbudding dairy goats...they have to be in close confines and may injure each other. I can also understand why meat goats could be candidates, if they are housed close, so that they will not bruise the meat.

But I feel like my goats will do better in the environment I provide if they have some natural defenses. And I think the goat deserves anesthetic if it is to be disbudded.

The darndest thing about goats is (unlike cattle), they won't stay true for polled, so you can't breed it reliably into them. When I was in cattle, Angus made a huge deal of being polled, and farmers liked that aspect lot.

mousebandit, as far as I know about it all, at around two weeks, the loose bud begins to become attached to the bone in a more permament manner. That makes scurs and also bone/brain injury much more likely from the hot iron cuz then you are conducting the heat to and through bone instead of concentrating it on the skin. When I did it, I always felt like if I could move the lil bud I was OK, but once it started to get a fixed position, I was on the edge.

I have had zero management problemns in my herd leaving them as nature intended. Plus, it's easy to grab a horn and subdue a goat quickly.

Newby note: You can at a glance tell generally if your newborn kid favors polled or horns by looking at the head shape and hair whorls. If the top of the head is rounded off, naturally polled is favored. If it is squarer near the ears, horns are favored. Looking at the top of the head, two distinct whorls of hair favor horns, while a nonwhorled head favors polled.

This is pretty accurate once you know what you are seeing, and it also works with calves.

[bergy5]

We only band, its very simple, and cheap.

As for horns we only dehorn our dairy. We do not dehorn any of our boer.

I will add this, get a dehorner it will pay for its self in one use.

[cfarmher]

What kind of anesthetic is used? Is it something that can be bouhgt without a scrip, and used at home.

I *like* the idea of using an anesthetic, but it seems odd to me since we will likely end up butchering some of our goats without anesthetic.

[HazyDay]

I see this thing is here once agian! to disbud or not to! Well we keep boers and nubains in the same barn, so for safety we disbud. No doubt about it. I know it hurts but would you like a horn in your side? or a few seconds of heat? even tho mom is selling all her kid this year (boer/spanish cahmere) to be butcher we are disbuding just in case doe is sold for a pet.