Lessons learned - the hard way

KimM · #1 03/06/07, 12:48 AM

I had 2 does due this week. A 2nd timer (Cooky) on the 8th and a 1st timer (Pastry) on the 9th.
I fed this morning and did my hands-on check of ligaments and udders. Cooky is kind of full but not firm. Her ligaments are very firm and her vulva is still smallish.
Pastry's udder is small and barely full with floppy teats, semi-firm ligaments, but has a somewhat puffy vulva.
I come in the house, do some chores and about 4:30 I went to town for bedding for the kid pens. I had to go to 2 feed stores, then had a quick dinner with my mom. Got home about 7-7:30 pm and went to feed. Everyone came in, lined up in their usual place and ate thier supper. Then I see Pastry facing out the big door, crying and crying and her rear-end is all bloody. OMG! I ran in but don't see any kids anywhere. I look outside and there is a kid laying on the ground. I picked it up and it was very cold and totally limp, just a little warmth left in its belly area. But then it let out a feeble cry. I couldn't believe it was still alive and I thought it would be usless but I started rubbing it, it cried again, I grabbed a towel out of the kidding box and rubbed some more, it's still giving little cries. Knowing I had to get this kid in warm water PDQ, I ran up to the house and stick it in bathroom sink full of very warm water and rub some more.
Now I know the doe might be having another one but I'm the only one home. I can't leave her alone and I can't take her back down. I called my friend, Cheryl, and she races over. I hand her the kid in a big towel and told her rub, rub, and rub some more and I went to the barn to check the doe. No kids that I can see. I look outside again - this time with the light on. There's another kid over a little farther but this one is ice cold, not breathing, no heartbeat. I grabbed it and took it and the doe to a small pen, hoping she might try and mother it a little but she wouldn't even look at it. It was a beautifully marked little doeling.
Back to the house to work on the other one. I realized I didn't see what "it" was - it's a doeling!
Well at least I may save one. After wrapping her up in a heating pad, she starts getting more alert and starts sucking on my finger, so, back to the barn to milk the doe.
I decided to tube her in case she wasn't swallowing good yet, and got about 40-50 cc's colostrum and Nutri-Drench in her. She got a little more alert and a little stronger so after I was sure she was good and warm, I took her back to her dam and helper her nurse. She was having a lot of trouble standing yet but succeeded in getting her belly full. And her dam liked her then. YAY! Because she was still pretty weak and it's going down into single digits, I thought I'd bring her in the house tonight. I gave her a little Bo-Se and now she's comfy and warm sleeping on a thick blanket in a dog crate. I'll take her back down about 3 or 4 am to nurse and leave her with mom in the morning, after it warms up a little.
I can hardly believe that I got her to come back. I truly didn't think I would but as long as there was any life, I couldn't quit trying. She's tiny but gorgeous. Think I should call her "Miracle"? Or Reddi - as in ready or not....!

Lessons learned -
1. Always have the kidding pen READY by the 140th day.
2. NEVER trust a first-timer!
3. It pays to not give up.

I'm oh-so beat. Pics tomorrow - sorry!

moosemaniac · #2 03/06/07, 04:18 AM

Miracle. Definately Miracle.

Ruth

nehimama · #3 03/06/07, 05:38 AM

I hope the one you saved continues to do well, and to thrive. So sorry about the lost one. That's a heartbreak, but you did well with the saved one.

NeHi

mammawof3 · #4 03/06/07, 06:30 AM

So sorry that happened. I would have trusted those signs as not ready yet also! Glad you were able to save one-and i agree w/Miracle!

Had a doe kid last year, while we were at the hospital-and not home till 12:30 a.m.-her buck was cleaned off and fine-her little doe had never been touched--still covered in her sack(face out) and ohh so cold and limp.I managed to get her back also,using similair actions-but her momma never would take her back-never wanted her to begin with i guess.

Best of luck w/your little one.

HazyDay · #5 03/06/07, 06:33 AM

Miracle yes! I had the same thing happen, but mine kidded in -25c (what is about 7 or 8F) She was a 2 timer and dried some off. But I think my herd queen did most of the work (besides the whole labor thing!!!) I got them in water and let them live in the house for 1 1/2 weeks!
I learned Never listein to the breeder (he gave me 4 different dates all a few weeks off. One week it was Jan 29 the next Feb 3 and so one. So the day that i was told Jan 26. And so I slept in!)
Never Sleep in!
after her so called due date is over be out there!

Milking Mom · #6 03/06/07, 08:18 AM

Sorry you lost one, but GLAD you saved the other

Good job! I had something similar happen a few days ago with a FF Boer doe. If it wasn't for my LGD (who is only 6 months old) that cleaned the babies up and dried them off and was standing over them when I went in the pen they would both probably have died. Yep... we just can't trust those FF can we.

Amylb999 · #7 03/06/07, 08:21 AM

I had a surprise last week with one of my does. She didn't look big, and was only starting to bag up. One morning I walk to their shed to feed everyone and there's a little buckling standing next to her,,clean and dry!

(they always do this to me while hubby is at work,,lol) I just scooped him up and headed to the barn, with momma right behind me. She's a great mom.

KimM · #8 03/06/07, 08:30 AM

Well the doeling is lethargic this morning. She nurse a little but didn't act enthused at all. I tubed her with milk and ND. She hadn't pooped on her own so I squirted a little warm water up inside (3 cc's). She passed a chunk of meconium but still acts dull and now doesn't want to nurse at all.

Should I give her a little shot of B complex? I put her in with her dam with heat lamps and need to run to town. Geeze, anything else I should do??

mammawof3 · #9 03/06/07, 09:51 AM

If she's not pooping-she's not hungry.(not true in a case of a kid not being fed enough) Try an infants fleet enima. Is the inside of her mouth cold? What is her temp.? How is her breathing?I don't think i would put anymore milk into her-until it starts coming out better. Since she has passed her meconium-she may start to come around better now.Most bottle kids will poop after each bottle. The nutri-drench should perk her up. Abit of corn syrup in her milk will help w/pooping also. If your dates were correct-she shouldn't be too early to survive. It is usually better with "hard cases" too feed tiny bits often for the first few days, rather than 4x daily like "strong, vigerous kids". I hope she improves for you..hugs your way!

KimM · #10 03/06/07, 10:54 AM

Her temp is 101.2, her mouth was not as warm as I thought it should be so I brought her back in and put her in front of a little heater. breathing is good. Nutri Drench doesn't seem to do much for her. She just peed but I have given her another 3cc water enema before I went to town and no more poop, so I gave her another 6 cc's 20 minutes ago but nothing yet. I've been massaging her belly and rubbing her tail area Seems like her gut has shut down. Oh and I tried giving her a couple grams of Lamb & Kid Paste, for digestion and intestinal disorders. I'm losing hope but like my recent lessons, I won't give up. I just wish there were something else I could do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammawof3

If she's not pooping-she's not hungry.(not true in a case of a kid not being fed enough) Try an infants fleet enima. Is the inside of her mouth cold? What is her temp.? How is her breathing?I don't think i would put anymore milk into her-until it starts coming out better. Since she has passed her meconium-she may start to come around better now.Most bottle kids will poop after each bottle. The nutri-drench should perk her up. Abit of corn syrup in her milk will help w/pooping also. If your dates were correct-she shouldn't be too early to survive. It is usually better with "hard cases" too feed tiny bits often for the first few days, rather than 4x daily like "strong, vigerous kids". I hope she improves for you..hugs your way!

mammawof3 · #11 03/06/07, 11:57 AM

I don't think i would give anymore enemas for now-that doesn't seem to be working. She seems a little cold-how much colostrum do you think she has had so far? If 60c.c's is 2 oz.-and you have tubed her twice, and she nursed once-that really is not too much--she may not need to poop. Unfortunatly, if she was too cold, when you tubed her last night-then her tummy may not have digested what you put in it. But since you said she was alert enough to suck your finger, then i don't think that would be the case. I really think you are doing everything you can-if she didn't get enough colostrum, she would act this way,start failing on you. I hope someone else knows of anything that might get her digestion working again-wish i had the answers! She almost sounds premature to me.(digestion shutting down)I tube a "very cold-lethergic kid" with a tiny bit of warm water, black coffee, corn syrup, and a few c.c.'s of whiskey-just once, along with warm water bath and hot towels-until mouth is no longer cold inside,and alert-then give the colostrum. But i don't think i would do her that way now. Huggs to you!

Sweet Goats · #12 03/06/07, 12:34 PM

Prayers going out to you. As you know get her warm and warm enough until her mouth is warm. I agree, the Colostrum is what she needs, also don't think thatthe Nutra Drench is not working. she might already be dead without it. I would get her warm and tube her again. The mix you might try that mommawof3 was talking about. 3 cc of al lthese. Whiskey, Karo syrup and coffee. Mix well and give her 1 cc of it. The whiskey will help her warm up, and the coffe and syrup will stimulate her. Please try it, it does work. Good luck.

Milk n' Honey · #13 03/06/07, 12:40 PM

Oh my, I hope you can save her. This is so hard to go through. Prayers your way....

KimM · #14 03/06/07, 01:38 PM

She passed more meconium! Vet said (via phone) her temp was okay. Still 101.4. He said keep giving her the does milk (tubing) and keep giving ND but add a couple cc's Karo and a couple cc's mineral oil until she's 'going' better. Also he said to give her 2/10ths cc Banamine to both stimulate her and make her comfortable. He said she's not doing too terribly bad yet, not to give up.
Her dam doesn't have that much milk so I milked out all I could (about 1/8 cup) but added some of my Nubian's milk to it to get 60+ cc's. Oh, vet said that at 145 days, most are a little premature.

I agree that if she'd have cooked another week, she'd have been stronger.

Will update again after school - last test tonight before finals. (geeze, I'm tired)

fishhead · #15 03/06/07, 01:41 PM

Thanks for the update and good luck!

GrannyG · #16 03/06/07, 01:48 PM

I was so desparate to save one little doe that I put her in my bed, bundled up in towels and turned on the eletric blanket to keep her warm. She lived ! My SIL had a fit when he came by and saw the goat in my bed. Tooo Baddd ! LOL.

KimM · #17 03/06/07, 03:30 PM

Oh the things we won't do for our critters! I can relate!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrannyG

I was so desparate to save one little doe that I put her in my bed, bundled up in towels and turned on the eletric blanket to keep her warm. She lived ! My SIL had a fit when he came by and saw the goat in my bed. Tooo Baddd ! LOL.

Jcran · #18 03/06/07, 08:18 PM

In the book, Beatrice's Goat, the little girl names her goat, MUGISA, which means "luck". That might go right along with miracle.

mousebandit · #19 03/06/07, 08:29 PM

it sounds like she's absorbing what you're giving her via the tube, but just in case, with humans you can give enemas with things like herbal teas or electrolyte fluid, and the body can absorb it directly via the lower intestine. I don't know if this applies to goats, though. Maybe someone else here has experience with this?

Tracey Mouse

KimM · #20 03/06/07, 09:24 PM

I got home from school with the thought that she wasn't going to make it. I went over to the cage (big wire dog crate) and she beeped at me and stood up. Since she hadn't passed enough meconium, I gave her another 6 ccs warm water enema. Less than a inute later, the meconium is coming out like crazy! It was very stiff little strings, bunches of them. When she finally quit, she started rooting at my hand.

I took her down to her dam and she nursed a little and walked around a bit. She is starting to feel better now that all that crud is coming out.
I think I'll get her to nurse good one more time, then milk the Nubian for her middle-of-the-night feedings. I have hope again and I want to thank you all for your support, suggestions, and sharing your experiences. I'll keep updates coming.