HELP! Goat or cow? Why can't I decide!?

[DixyDoodle]

Ok, here's my dilemma. I have been vacillating between goats and dairy cows for awhile. Not sure which way I should go. Just when I think I'm sure, I hesitate and start rethinking.

I don't have a preference myself. Goat or cow. I just want milk for the family. what I prefer:

1/An animal that can withstand -30F temps in the winter
2/A dairy animal that can give us milk reliably, but I would guess that a gallon per day would be fine, so large amounts not necessary.
3/Milk that tastes pretty much like cow milk---I have one son that loves goat milk, the other says he would prefer cow although I am not sure he could tell the difference if given the choice, do you think he would notice? We have had store bought goat milk and I find it almost identical. Is whole goat milk very goaty/strong tasting? I was also told by some that if fed properly, goat milk is hard to dicern from cow.
4/Something that is hardly, economical, and not hard to handle.

The benefits to a goat:

--they are hardy and small, cheaper to feed and care for
--they would be safer around children
--quicker to milk and not a lot of excess milk to get rid of
--aside from originally getting special fencing, easy to contain (I hope! LOL)
--having two does and a buck would guarantee a fairly steady supply of milk in comparison to having one cow

Downside of goats:

--goat milk may not be "likeable" in taste for everyone
--may be escape artists
--not enough milk? What does the average goat produce per day in milk, on best days? What about with mini's (I ask this because I know of a few people who sell dairy mini's)

The benefits of a cow:

--lots of milk, excess could be frozen
--milk that everyone would drink, no problem
--no special fencing required (we already have page wire, and the majority of cattle in my area are fenced with it, no probs)

Downside of cows:

--larger so perhaps harder to handle and care for (thinking in terms of foot care, etc)
--more expensive to feed
--may damage fences over time, requiring more frequent fence repair--this would depend on the cow I guess
--longer time milking per day
--more potential danger in terms of handling, not so suitable around kids


Well, what do you think? Are there other issues to consider in my choice that I am missing?

I was originally thinking of maybe getting a dexter cow, but again, goats are nice. I really don't want to get into both. Do you think it's worth the chance to buy a few goats and see how they work out? And if they don't, go for a cow? It would be cheaper to start off with goats.

Sheesh, I can't believe it's so hard to make a decision! HELLLLLLLP!

DD


(PS> I will post this in the cattle forum also)

[mary,tx]

I guess I had trouble deciding to, until I found some goats to buy.
Here's what I've found. Goats are small enough that even a small woman like me can handle them alone. Without horns, they are a lot safer, I believe, to have around children, as well.

We've raised a few calves, and they get big and bouncy enough to be dangerous fairly quickly. That's not to say that a very well mannered dairy cow would be dangerous, but when I have to teach a first freshener not to kick, I'm glad I don't have to worry about being kicked by a cow.

As far as the taste goes, you control that by how you handle the milk. Running a buck with the does can sometimes cause an off flavor.
And you have to get the milk in, filter it, and chill it quickly. But if it is handled cleanly and chilled well, it is quite sweet and tasty. My children have preferred it to store bought cow's milk.

mary

[DixyDoodle]

Here's another issue: I originally thought I could put a cow in with my horses, but some are saying that sometimes you can't. So that would mean a separate area for the cow. I really don't want to get into heavy extensive fencing just for one cow. With goats, I could just get the goat fencing in their smaller area and be done with it.

[dezeeuwgoats]

If it were me - I'd go with two goats - that way, you could stagger breeding and have milk year around. Fresh goat's milk tastes remarkably like cow's milk - proper sanitation and you shouldn't be able to tell the difference.

I was hung up on my cream separator - hated it so much, I bought a heifer calf! At least her cream would know where to go all by itself.....Well, I figured out my separator and decided it is a much easier option than owning a cow, plus goats. Realize also - that all the surplus cow's milk still has to be milked from her - which translates into time. I can milk all three of my goats in about ten to fifteen minutes, milking at ten to thirteen pounds each.

The fact that goats are safe around my kids factors in hugely. My six year old can go pet and love on the milkers and I'm not worried about them. I can trim their feet myself. My youngest child can love on the bucks and has never been hurt. Once the bucks are older there IS the smell to deal with, lol, which keeps children out of harm's way. (hidden benefit, although I have wondered, what IS that smell? Yelled, 'who was playing with the bucks, and traced it to my six year old. That was when they first started smelling though, and were/are stilly 'babyish' at a year and a half).

From reading what you've posted - I'd go with goats. Seems they have more of the posatives, and the 'negatives' or concerns you've posted I believe either aren't an issue, or can be gotten around. My goats don't escape - except the littlest ones, but a five foot cattle panel will keep them in, so it is more my fault than theirs.

My husband comes from a long, long line of Dutch dairy farmers. I wanted goats and he made me get a cow. She lasted a month. My milk goats are just fine, thanks! So I'm biased -lol. One thing to keep in mind - if you want great milkers, be prepared to pay for them. I'm NOT saying you can't get a reasonably priced milker, but if production is very important, do your research. There has been some talk about goat prices in the outrageous thread.

Niki

[DixyDoodle]

And you have to get the milk in, filter it, and chill it quickly.

What do you mean by "quickly" though? LOL How long does it generally take to filter milk? Or do you mean just strain it by hand, and then refridgerate? Or there other steps I would have to take?

What happens to goat milk if it is not chilled quickly, does it go bad or just get "musky" tasting?

And why will a buck hanging around make a doe's milk taste odd? Obviously I have to have a buck to breed her, but should I separate them when she is bred and when she is being milked?

[DocM]

I didn't read the other responses. If you feed a goat the same types of feed as a cow, you get milk that tastes basically the same. If cow's milk isn't strained and chilled quickly, it picks up undesirable flavors too. You can't put a cow in the back seat and take it to the vets, nor can you treat a cow as easily as a goat. A saanen goat can give 2 gallons a day, plenty for the average family need plus cheese and such.

When I milk, the milk is poured from the milk bucket through my dairy strainer (with filters) and into the bucket for my pasteurizer. I don't drink raw milk (for the same reasons I wouldn't eat raw eggs). After the pasteurizer runs, the bucket of milk is set into a readied ice bath. It chills down to about 40 degrees very quickly, probably within 10-15 minutes. It's then poured into half gallon canning jars with plastic lids and stored in the bottom of the refridgerator. Nobody I have "tested" can tell the difference between goats milk and store bought whole milk. I had a cow for awhile, big stupid animal that left messy wet crap everywhere she walked, messed up the milking parlor, slobbered, wouldn't move when she stepped on my foot, in general, was a PITA. I much prefer my goats. Good fencing and nobody escapes. They naturally keep the milking area clean. What they do leave can be easily swept up. They're smart and loving. I can't think of one advantage to a cow over a goat.

[Dee]

After reading your post, it seemed like you already know the answer

Also, with two does, you wouldn't want to keep a buck. If you can find someone dependable and clean, you can have your does serviced cheaper then keeping and feeding a smelly buck around. If you decide to increase your herd to sell milk, cheese, soap, kids, etc, then it would be good to have a buck.

[waygr00vy]

I agree, definitely would go with goats. I had 2 Jersey heifers I got as bottle babies with intentions on using them for milk. I also have nigerians and pygmies, but they were more for pets at the time. As the cows got bigger, they definitely became more of a pain...eating more, knocking you with their big head without realizing it, stepping on feet, etc. They would also find any spot the fence was a bit weak, or if the electric fence had broke (thanks to deer!) and they would get out. Cows can be escape artists too! My goats occasionally find a hole and get out into the hay field...but they know exactly how to get back in..usually before I am home to see them The cows would run around frantically trying to figure it out. Another problem was breeding them. It is silly to have a bull for only two cows, plus dairy bulls can be pretty nasty, and it is a big pain to find someone nearby to AI them or bring them to a bull. Much easier to load up the goats and bring them to be bred, or have a buck at home. Goats are much easier to handle, eat way less, less of a mess, etc, etc....needless to say I sold the Jerseys and have now added a few nubians to the herd and I'm very happy with that decision!

[bergy5]

dezeeuwgoats

the smell to deal with, lol, which keeps children out of harm's way.

I LOVE THAT STATEMENT!!!

I don't know how many gloves I have put on, then realised the kids wore them and played with Old Red. Wow what a way to wake up at 4:30am.

Sorry now to the post, we have had both liked goats better. Much easier to handle.

[tinknal]

Cows, because they ...are well...........NOT GOATS!

[GrannyCarol]

A dairy cow is going to give a LOT more milk than you need. One goat would keep your family in milk, two will give you options to make cheese or to freeze some for later and also to stagger breeding times to keep one fresh all the time. You said you needed about a gallon a day, that would be the production of a good (but not exceptional) goat.

My friend's Brown Swiss gave her 4-8 gallons a day. That's a lot of milk! She was very sweet, but huge and a lot of work to keep up.

I'd vote goat for ease of care, less cost, safer and less space needed. You can even get a couple of the smaller milking goats like the Mini Manchas and have plenty of milk for your family.

Some breeds are noted for the good taste in their milk, so if taste is a concern, see if you can try the milk from a couple of different breeds and ask around too. Fresh milk is almost always better than store milk, so if your kids find store bought goat's milk to be acceptable, then they will probably really like home grown!

As for drinking it raw (unpasteurized), do your research. Milk is a living food and, as long as you are careful to have healthy goats and keep their milk clean, it's much healthier raw than cooked. Large dairies have a lot more trouble with disease than a couple of well cared for home goats, too.

Male goats in rut smell really strongly, or so I'm told. (I've never had one!) That would be why its a good idea to avoid getting a buck if you can. They are pretty nasty too, though goat lovers don't seem to mind 'em.

Some people milk sheep too... in fact they are the most milked animal in the world according to some special I watched on TV a while back! They don't give as much as goats and you'd have to find a good milking breed. Their milk is higher in butterfat and solids than a goat or a cow and is known for making great cheeses and soaps.

To me it sounds like you'd do best with a couple of milk goats of good producing bloodlines.

[dezeeuwgoats]

The only advantage a cow has over a goat? Ribeye.

Go back to the cattle forum Tink, lol. Or all of the goat gods and goddesses will come and haunt this post over there!

Niki

[Patty0315]

There is also the cleanup . Goats are easy. 7 in a pen do not make the mess that 1 cow does.

Patty

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by dezeeuwgoats

The only advantage a cow has over a goat? Ribeye.

Go back to the cattle forum Tink, lol. Or all of the goat gods and goddesses will come and haunt this post over there!

Niki

Naw, they'll prolly just butt me in the arse when I bend over..............

[LamiPub]

I am so glad you started this thread I have been doing alot of researching the past few months and weighing this decision myself. How important is the breed for how close the milk resembles whole cow milk? Which breeds are best for milk, cheese, cream? I really want to make butter and cheese and so far the cow is much better for the butter. Right now I buy cow milk from a friend and it tastes great but I am a big wimp around large livestock and prefer the goats. And I second the question about those with a buck do you leave the buck with the gals or keep separate and why? The breed I am seriously considering is American Oberhasli.

[dbarjacres]

Goats of course! I grew up on a holstein dairy farm, I now have a small herd of dairy goats. I really like cows, but honestly, goats are much smarter, more loving, more fun, and if you step in their poo, it doesn't run into your shoe! (oh, boy, that rhymed!)

When I first wanted a milk goat, DH said NO. He's not a milk drinker anyway, but when he was a kid, his ma had some goats she milked and he said it was disgusting, tasted "goaty". I love cows milk, (except skim - yuck!) but I figured I'd try goats milk and see if I liked it. We only had a handful of boers then, so I just milked some out of one and yep, I liked it. Sold our little meat herd, and bought all tested nigerians and mini manchas 2 years ago. I love milking them, it's relaxing (well, usually, sometimes they get PMS).

I only milk one doe at a time. She goes on the stand, starts eating her grain, I wash her with udder wash, wipe clean, strip out, milk her out, then immediately take the milk into the house. I then put a 6.5" round milk filter into a green plastic canning jar funnel and fill up my jar and put it in the fridge immediately. I only use it if it has less than a half dozen hairs or only a couple pieces of alfalfa leaves (which happens occasionally). If it appears to have any other dirt, it just goes into a jar and gets used for the dogs, or would possibly get filtered to get used as milk for making soap. If they step in it or it happens to get dirt, it doesn't even come in the house. If I have another doe to milk, I usually don't need it for house uses, so it just goes to the farm dogs.

I've never, ever had milk taste bad, or any thing different than whole milk from a cow, except this last fall when I was milking a 2 week fresh nigerian. I'd milked her the previous spring for 3 months and she had great milk. But I tasted her new milk and it was so bitter I gagged. Left a bad taste in my mouth. Nice me, had DH try it too, he agreed with me. I thought about what she was eating. Hay, grass/alfalfa mix. HOWEVER, this hay was treated with acid (the big 800 lb squares). I pulled her off that hay for a week, gave her straight alfalfa, small squares, milked her again, and it was perfect.

Oh, my FIL didn't like when MIL milked her goats either, but he tried my milk and now he's happy as a lark if he scores some to take home and use.

[nehimama]

Should you decide on goats, please be sure to get a taste of the milk from the goat(s) you are planning to purchase. Not all goats' milk tastes the same. I have one LaMancha whose milk I do not like the taste of at all. (But she is valuable to me because I can use her milk to feed bottle babies, other critters, etc).

I have a reg Nubian whose milk is wonderful, a NubianX whose milk is wonderful, and a Nubian/LaMancha whose milk is also wonderful. Then another Nubian/LaMancha whose milk has a strongish taste.

All get the same feed, hay, water, minerals, browse.

So, please get a taste before you buy.

BTW, I agree with all the other posters who favor goats over a cow. For much the same reasons. I love my goats!

Please let us know what you decide.

NeHi

[flannelberry]

Originally Posted by DixyDoodle

I don't have a preference myself. Goat or cow. I just want milk for the family. what I prefer:

I know this isn't what you asked but I'm partial to Icelandic sheep. Milky, friendly and easy keepers - way easier than any goat I've ever had. Supposedly people drink the milk around the world. I haven't drunk (?drank) it myself but have had ice cream, yogurt and cheese. I will drink some this lambing season.

Just another thought.

[dezeeuwgoats]

That's one animal I'd love to try - icelandic sheep. I can't do it here in the desert though - I'd feel too guilty! A tri-purpose animal: meat, milk, and fiber. I've seen udder pictures on some of those icelandics - they are something else!

And Tink - you're right! (but not about the whole cow 'issue') lol

Niki

[Tam319]

Hi there,

I have been looking for a dairy cow and having no luck finding an affordable, good quality and healthy family cow.

I do have quite a collection of goats. We have a commercial meat herd and some pymgy goats for pets. I love the goat personality and the ease of handling. We got into the goats on the larger scale because I can handle them easily on my own while DH is at work. I take my toddler out with me when I chore and I don't worry about his safety with the goats. The kids are a ton of fun. Their antics and affection are priceless. You can find value in marketing your kids if you get creative. Aside from selling kids as replacements or meat I'm thinking about raising and training my spare wethers as pack or driving animals.

I am leaning towards getting some dairy goats for the reasons you mentioned, as well as the difficult time I am having finding a cow.

I also wanted to comment on the statement someone mentioned on the cow forum about goats not being hardy and dying easily. I disagree. My goats are tough little stinkers and handle our cold weather very well. Also, worst case scenario...if you lose a cow you are out a lot more $$ than if one of your goats dies. Plus, you will likely have more than one goat so even losing one means you'll still have a back up to supply you with milk.

Just my $0.02.