maybe urgent questions about new kids

DQ · #1 02/10/07, 08:07 AM

this is my first experience with kidding and I have some questions. 2 kids born last night about 8:00. questions...

one is larger and seemingly alot stronger is this normal?

the larger kid was walking and exploring while the other one had not even stood up. even this morning I have barely seen him walk anywhere. I held him to the doe and he nursed last night and I waited until he managed to get there on his own before I left them about 11:00. he is walking with his back feet folded back. If I place his feet down correctly he stays that way until he/she trys to walk.

the smaller one is very shaky/weak or shivering I don't know which. but he wants to stand. the other one is a little shivery looking. are newborns just like this as they acclimate to being outside the womb? are they cold? mom seems more concerned with eating and escaping the stall than the kids although she does go over and nibble them for a minute if they cry. They have only cried when I picked them up or messed around with them.

I could get milk/colostrom easily from the doe so I'm relatively sure they both got some last night several times.

the doe still has some "stringy fleshy goo" hanging from her this morning. I watched her pass 1 placenta last night.

birth history as follows. last night strted pushing about 7:20 first kid born about 8:00 second kid shot out like a rocket immediatly after first. second kid is weaker/smaller kid.

am I just being a worry wort?

Patty0315 · #2 02/10/07, 08:13 AM

The kids need a shot of bo-se and Mom also. It is available from your vet. More than likely the kid if lacking in selenium. You can crush up a pill of selenium and a vit e capsule and give it by mouth until you can get to the Vet.

Have someone hold Mom and put the kids on her to eat. Make sure ther both eat well til there tummies look rounded or full. The kids are probally chilly because they are hungry. Keep them draft free with lots of bedding. If you cannot get them to nurse , milk out Mom and bottle feed them.

Patty

DQ · #3 02/10/07, 09:02 AM

kid # one seems ok I've seen him get up and easily get to mom and go to town he is now sleeping kid #2 is sill just standing weakly. I miked mom and got les than 1 tb out its hard she is a pygmy. I am warming some whole cow milk that I'm planning on adding to this and try to give this baby a full tummy. is this ok at this stage? I tried to get him to nurse by holding him up there and helping him find the nipple again but he wouldn't take it as he did last night. I have some colostrum for kids from the feed store how useful is that stuff really? I am not in a selenium defficient area and the doe has selenium in her feed and I am concerned about selenium toxicity as I have read that there is a very narrow margin for error. if it was se deficient wouldn't the other kid be have lots of trouble too? I have ,of course forgotten almost every thing I've read and feel completely lost.

Patty0315 · #4 02/10/07, 09:31 AM

Have you checked the new map ? Alot more areas are lacking. He need colustrum now more than milk. Keep trying to milk Mom out. Massage the udder and try again. Use the sub stuff only if all else fails. I would bring the weak one inside.

Yes both kids can be lacking and only one showing signs. A vit b shot would not hurt either.

Patty

DQ · #5 02/10/07, 09:37 AM

little one is inside. his head started "falling" that was enough sign for me . I will try to get more out of mom to give. I have vet number that I will try to reach. he already seem to be better he's not shivering anymore and is standing with his feet down correctly. he sucked 2 or 3 times on the bottle, but doesn't seem interested anymore.

Patty0315 · #6 02/10/07, 10:19 AM

Just keep trying. Can you tube him ? If so do that.

Patty

DocM · #7 02/10/07, 11:09 AM

Use a syringe and squirt it into the back of this throat. Rub the front of his neck lightly to get him to swallow.

DQ · #8 02/10/07, 11:32 AM

I talked to the vets office but the vet was out on a call, the woman I talked to had experience with sheep and said to just keep milking mom and feeding and to try adding a little corn syrup. I gave up on the bottle for now and am just using a syringe I'm getting better at milking mom and have managed to get 1/2 -1 cup. baby is doing much better his eyes are all the way open (they were droopy)and his ears aren't just held straight back, for the first time he appears to be looking around a little and he layed down on his own once although he still just basically is standing around. will it be possible to get him back on mom or should I just plan on bottle feeding him?

Patty0315 · #9 02/10/07, 11:46 AM

Keep bringing him out to Mom and try to get him to nurse. let Mom kiss and clean him. you will have a better chance of her taking him back if he is drinking her milk.

Patty

Dee · #10 02/10/07, 12:12 PM

When he is standing around, is he kinda hunched up? That is usually a warm me, feed me, look.

I have found that getting a good amount (4 oz) of warm milk into them with a tube feeding is better then trying to squirt some into their mouth (not as scary as it seems and will save many a life). This gets them warm and stronger right away. (when one was really down, I tried the strong coffee/milk someone suggested and it really did jolt him awake)

I also will cut the sleeves off of old sweatshirts or sweaters and make coats out of them. The cuff fits the neck and I cut little holes for the front feet. This will also keep his body heat in and allow you to keep him with his Mom.

DQ · #11 02/10/07, 01:17 PM

he is definitly hunched up. I will make him a sweater out of a sock. he can't weigh more than a pound. I took him to mom when he started rooting around and trying to suck on hubbys finger. he immediatly found the teat and ate, but now 1/2 hr later he is getting droopy again and shivering. I can't believe how much smaller he is than the other one. I noticed when they were born his umbilical cord was much smaller in diameter than the other and broken completely the moment he was born. I wonder if he drew the short straw in the womb. mom didn't get him cleaned up very good and he was still slightly damp and crusty feeling this morning and it was int he 20's. I don't feel confident enough to tube him, he is swallowing most of the time when I squirt a little in his mouth.

Dee · #12 02/10/07, 02:15 PM

Even though he sucked on Mom, doesn't necessarily mean he got enough milk, especially if the other son is stronger and possibly nursed on both teats. To be sure, you should separate the larger one for an hour or so and allow the smaller one to nurse and see if there is any difference.

Tubing isn't that hard, honest. Just remember to go down on the left side and put the end in a liquid to see if bubbles come out. I was told that if you can see the tube going down the throat it is safe.

But if he was nursing off Mom, he should take the bottle to suppliment if necessary until he is strong enough to stay with Mom and brother. But sometimes when the size difference is so large, the bigger will bully the smaller for all the milk.

white eagle · #13 02/10/07, 03:57 PM

If kid is not able to stand he needs a shot of BO-Se alone with making sure he gets enough milk to drink. You need to learn how to tube a kid because it can be a life or death thing. Sometimes no matter if a area isn't SE problem the kids still can be that trouble when first born that is why he needs the BO-SE shot. Also's give V-B shots they will help get him going. If he seems cold ifs don't want to bring in house put a coat on him to keep him from getting cold. If very cold put a heat lamp out in stall to help protect him from cold. Since he is smaller he will need more TLC. This kids need his tummy full of good milk to helps him too. Gets cow milk an feed to this kid because if mother can't produce enough he going to strave to death.

DQ · #14 02/10/07, 04:09 PM

I've been taking him out to mom every couple of hours or so and he nurses. then I leave him out,he's usually walking around exploring for a while, about 45 min last time, then starts standing hunched up shaking so I take him in to warm him up. I know going in and out isn't ideal but I don't feel safe putting a heating pad or light out there its really just a shed and I think it would be dangerous. the only way to get it close enough to do any good would be to close for safety's sake to a very old wooden shed filled with straw and just drafty enough to feed a fast fire. he's just skin and bones compared to the other kid, I made him a coat with some fleece and he seemed to be able to stay out longer, but as soon as I see shivering I pull him back in. mom seems to be ok with it, I'm not sure how to tell if he is getting enough. he nurses pretty vigourously for several minutes usually lays down and trys again, but after the inital nursing he just won't go to much effort if mom scoots over and he has to work at it at all. if I stick him back under there he leans against her and doesn't nurse. he is just fatigued easily I think. should I continue to milk mom and give it to him via syringe? can I over feed him?

DQ · #15 02/10/07, 04:30 PM

also, when I bring him in he sleeps, I'm judging when to take him to mom by when he wakes up apparently looking for something to nudge and get into. I'm trying to keep it as "natural" as possible and just follow his lead.

Patty0315 · #16 02/10/07, 07:09 PM

I think you should keep him in except to feed. By keep taking him in and out til he gets cold is not good.

Patty

Dee · #17 02/10/07, 09:15 PM

If you can milk Mom, put it into a bottle and feed that way instead of syringe. He isn't getting enough that way. I would also bring him in before he looks cold. As long as you are feeding him Mom's milk, he will smell like her and she should continue to care for him.

If it was me, I would just bring him in and bottle feed him cow's milk at this point but that is just me. I add a little probiotics and a drop of corn syrup with the whole cow's milk. If he is nursing off Mom, he will take a bottle. Put it up high and point down.

Good luck

DQ · #18 02/10/07, 10:08 PM

he just isn't into the bottle although I'm working a little harder at it, but even with mom he's only good for a couple minutes, his brother eats, goofs around, eats goofs around this little one eats then might nurse a little more if I stick him right under neath her, big bro was plowing past him to get to side number two last time. I think I will keep him nursing off mom several times per day, just so he knows he's a goat and will maybe assimilate back to the herd easier later but basically bottle feed. I've purchased some goat milk and am going to push the bottle. does this sound like a plan? maybe when he's stronger I can let him hang outside but I don't think at this point he will ever get past big bro to get enough from mom. he has made a HUGE turn around though already. thanks everyone for the support. I'm going to get a crash course in bottle feeding I guess. anybody have basic guidlines for how much and how often exactly? or anything I need to know?

Terre d'Esprit · #19 02/10/07, 10:30 PM

What is his temperature? Has he passed any meconium?

If he is lethargic, hunched up, etc., he may be constipated and/or have hypothermia. Give him a warm enema.

Patty0315 · #20 02/11/07, 06:46 AM

Is there anyone near by that can show you how to tube this poor little guy. Most of his problems at this point are because he is not getting enough food. He either needs tubed or need s to take a bottle. I would stop taking him to Mom because he will only fight the bottle more.

Start a post on here and see if there is anyone close to come and help you tube. Check the sheep forum to.

Patty