Some goaty questions.

[jennigrey]

I have some basic goaty questions. I don't have goats, but we'd like to try our hand one day down the road.

We'd like a dairy goat one day, but I'd imagine the goat would need a companion. Are two goats enough?

Also, are goats truly good for clearing brush, or is that goat mythology? We have a lot of blackberry, salmonberry, alder and cottonwood tree saplings, and a small amount of stinging nettle that need removing from otherwise unused land. There's probably some grass down under all that stuff, but not that much. Would the goats need some grass pasture in addition to the brushy stuff to be adequately nourished?

If goats *are* good for clearing brush, can you use a dairy goat for that job? Or will the lactating goat need a different diet?

Could I pasture the dairy goat adjacent to the companion goat rather than in the same enclosure? Would that be close enough for them to derive sufficient companionship?

[fcnubian]

2 goats are enough. I had only two when I first started out.
Goats prefer the brushy type stuff then a field full of grasses.

I cant answer the question about the brush/and milking as my dairy doesnt go in brushy areas, they remain in the barn for the most part, provided with free choice hay, ration of grain and all the mineral they want.

[Laura Workman]

Goats really are great for clearing brush. They'll eat that stuff long before they'll eat grass. However, you still need to provide them with good hay and a mineral supplement. If a goat is lactating or growing, they should also get some grain. I feed lactating does free choice alfalfa pellets, good grass hay and loose minerals, and a bit of grain. If the goats are eating brush, they'll eat less hay. Sometimes they won't eat any, but they do need to have the choice.

A dairy goat can clear brush, but she's very likely to injure her udder on thorns. Blackberries are the worst for udders. I use my bucks for brush clearing, and they do a marvellous job. A wether would do just as well. A goat should have another goat as a companion, and the companion should be in the same area. Goats play with each other and sleep next to each other, and those things are darn difficult when there's a fence between them.

[jennigrey]

So goats like to have physical contact with other goats. Check!
They will eat brush. Check!
Blackberry canes as hard on soft goaty parts as they are on soft human parts. Check!
Two goats are a herd unto themselves. Check!

If a goat's grazing enclosure is half good pasture and half brush, will that do? Pasture when it's available, hay otherwise?

I have horses, which is where most of my mammalian livestock experience lies. Do you have to pick and choose which two goats you put in together as carefully as you do horses? Are there alpha goats? Is there a goat pecking order?

I guess I would probably end up getting both goats from the same place, but it's possible I might not.

[Laura Workman]

Originally Posted by jennigrey

If a goat's grazing enclosure is half good pasture and half brush, will that do? Pasture when it's available, hay otherwise?

Provide excellent hay always, regardless of whether they have pasture or brush. They won't eat the hay unless the pasture and brush are inadequate, so it doesn't hurt to have it available to them. Note that your dairy doe will still get scratched up in the blackberries if she can get into them because goats far prefer blackberries to pasture.

Originally Posted by jennigrey

I have horses, which is where most of my mammalian livestock experience lies. Do you have to pick and choose which two goats you put in together as carefully as you do horses? Are there alpha goats? Is there a goat pecking order?

If you just have two, they'll get along once they've established who is boss. So yes, there is a pecking order, and yes, there will be an alpha goat (herd queen).

[jennigrey]

Originally Posted by Laura Jensen

Note that your dairy doe will still get scratched up in the blackberries if she can get into them because goats far prefer blackberries to pasture.

Wow! If they like them so much, can I cut the canes short (2' lengths) and put them in their enclosure rather than pasturing them on it? Will the canes "sour" in a short amount of time? Will the goats know when it's no longer good to eat? Do they eat the leaves and twigs or do they nibble the green canes too? My horses eat the leaves sometimes.

Do you think they will eat the salmonberry bushes too?

[Laura Workman]

We leave them long, so they'll mostly stay off the ground, and drape them over the fence. They're pretty close to the fence, so the doe doesn't actually get her udder into the vines while eating. They'll eat leaves and tender shoots. The giant woody stems won't get too much attention. We drag the stems away after a few days. Blackberry vines don't "sour." (BTW, blackberries are a good treatment for mild scours.)

And yes, salmonberries and other cane fruits, wild roses, alders, sword ferns (I pull bracken because they're poisonous), salal, bindweed - goats love them all! Just keep them away from azaleas, rhododendron, and laurels, to name a few very common, poisonous plants in our area.

[Hip_Shot_Hanna]

One added thought to the excellent information you've already received - if you are planning to milk your goat and drink the milk, be aware that what she eats will flavor the milk.

When my goats used to get into oak leaves from time to time, the milk was literally undrinkable. I don't seem to have that problem with the goats I currently have, even though there are oaks in the pasture.

[jennigrey]

Must be a lot of tannins in oak leaves. I can see how that would flavor the milk. How about alalfa?

[pookshollow]

How about alalfa?

Alfalfa is prime feed for dairy goats! It won't flavour the milk.

We took down a big willow tree at our last house, and the goats just loved the leaves, twigs and branches - that didn't flavour the milk either. FWIW

[Milking Mom]

Would you be interested at all in having meat kids to butcher? If you have a Dairy Goat for milk, you could get a Boer Buck to breed her to and have crossbred kids that would be good for meat. The Boer buck will eat grasses and some browse more readily than the Dairy Girl will. That way they would be more effeciently clearing the land and you could have some meat for the freezer also. Do read up on a good deworming and vaccination schedule so you don't run into problems in those areas. Good luck. They will definitely grow on you.

[jennigrey]

Hmmm... I am wary of having a billy. Heard too many bad things about them. DH isn't quite up to eating critters we have raised. We have done turkeys and he was so-so about it. Loved the meal, was very sad when the turkeys had to be processed. Goats are so much cuter than turkeys. I think maybe we'll do a few chickens first before he can think about eating a goat. Work our way up to rabbits.

At this point his talk is about outsourcing to a breeder for the stud services and selling the by-product baby(ies) for others to eat if they choose.

It might still be simpler to do it that way, though: having our own buck to eat the brush and provide the services for the dairy nanny. Even if we didn't eat the goatlings ourselves and sold them as meat goats. I'll keep it in mind.

Would a buck be more difficult to house than a wether? I am used to stud horses requiring more secure housing than a gelding.

We have several goaty books, including the Storey ones. The horse bookshelf is very long, but the goat bookshelf is coming into its own...

[DocM]

Originally Posted by pookshollow

Alfalfa is prime feed for dairy goats! It won't flavour the milk.

We took down a big willow tree at our last house, and the goats just loved the leaves, twigs and branches - that didn't flavour the milk either. FWIW

Alfalfa flavors milk just like anything else. It's just that people are used to the flavor because that's the primary feed for dairy animals. I personally don't like the taste, but it's personal preference. Some of my dairy girls get alfalfa pellets, and one, my personal milk goat, doesn't. She's as healthy as the rest of them, she gets adequate nutrition from her grain and good grass hay. She's on alfalfa now, and will be until after she kids, but then I'll switch her off to just grass hay. I think alfalfa gives the milk a slightly nutty flavor. I'll still drink it, but my preference is for grass fed.

[DocM]

Originally Posted by jennigrey

. DH isn't quite up to eating critters we have raised. We have done turkeys and he was so-so about it. Loved the meal, was very sad when the turkeys had to be processed. Goats are so much cuter than turkeys. I think maybe we'll do a few chickens first before he can think about eating a goat. Work our way up to rabbits.

I've worked my way through chickens, ducks, cows, sheep, and even cute bunnies, but I can't eat goat. I've tried! I can't do it. I sell off my meat kids to other folk. While they're still walking!

[Egypt Run]

One goat equals trouble
Two goats are fine
Three goats and you got a herd;
We love our goats. when Judy and I moved here it was a brushy over grown christmas tree farm. Now we can walk all of it and see what we bought. Did I mention that goats love pine trees. We feed free choice second cut grass hay and the milk girls get a couple of pounds of grain while they are on the milk stand.
I am listening to the girls in the barn as I write this two of them are real ready to kid.

[TexCountryWoman]

There is alot of good advice in this thread. Do not get a buck until you are experienced with your other goats and have the Fort Knox pen you need to keep him in. Also, a dairy goat needs lots of calcium and I am wondering where DocM's milkgoat gets calcium from? Hypocalcimia is of great concern with a dairy goat in milk not getting adequate calcium...good goats are lost that way.

[BlueHeronFarm]

The one thing we can't seem to get our girls to eat is stinging nettles. You'll probably be on your own there. (Oh how I wish they liked them...we have tons!)

We've got dairy goats but have not had a milking season with them on our land's browse yet - but it's true what they eat will affect flavor. Maybe think about getting a "meat goat" to do your brush clearing? Or a wether?

[TexCountryWoman]

Some of mine eat stinging nettles, it depends on the individual goat and what else is available that is green and delicious.

[jennigrey]

Just wanted to thank everyone for all of their helpful info so far! If you have anything to add, please do!

[TexCountryWoman]

Here is a place with some really great info and people
www.dairygoatinfo.com
read the goatkeeping 101 section as well as the main page (also cheese and soapmaking pages)