Whether or not to whether?

[southerngurl]

How do I decide if I should whether my little buckling? I am newer to goats and don't have a good eye for conformation, etc. Especially a baby. I am wondering if I should leave him a buck and sell him that way, or if he should be whethered. I hate to do it really. He is so pretty and such a sweetie pie. If we did we would butcher him, I don't know if I can though, he'll get uglier, right?

[Kshobbit]

If your adorable little buck is a full blood/purebred( if dairy) and can be registered, his dam has a wonderful udder and you have someone who wants to buy him later on then.. sure leave him intact.
But.. if he is a crossbred, no papers, mother is okay but not wonderful and no-one is interested in purchasing him as a buck then you need to "wether" him. No matter how cute they are when small they grow up to be big stinky bucks with an attitude. Even if you are thinking of a pet, you will want to turn him into a wether. There are tons of buck goats out there, and even the good ones have a hard time finding a home. that is the sad truth.
The buck kids seem to be the prettiest and the sweetest as babies too.

[FarmGoddess]

You would be amazed at just how 'ugly' a cut little fuzzy buckling can get when he grows up to be a full grown smelly buck.

If you already have a buck on the place, and want to keep him, go ahead and want to keep him, it will be a good idea to whether him out. That way he can stay in with the girls and won't develop any bad buck habits (like peeing on his beard and forelegs and trying to mate with anything that moves).

[southerngurl]

Yes, he is purebred and can be registered. His dam's udder seems fine to me. I will post pictures later because I would like to know what people who know what they're looking at think.

[animalfarmer]

Hi ! How many head do you have? The fewer the goats the more most want to keep especially as bucks for pets.This has no basis in fact what so ever.It does appear to me to be that way occasionally on this forum,though.On our farm we have aprox.150 head,and unless this buck was truley special his chances for survival would not be good.By that I mean that at a point someone here would walk through the pasture grab him and show him the knife,then escort him to the grill.Just having fun!!Best of luck.

[goatkid]

If I want a buck out of a certain breeding or if I have a person wanting to purchase a buckling, I'll keep one or more intact. If I have no demand, I wether regardless of the bloodlines. It's just too hard for me to deal with alot of young, intact male goats as they cam be fertile as early as 3 months old.

[Laura Workman]

If you don't want to use him as breeding stock, and if you don't have anyone interested in purchasing him for breeding stock, wether him regardless of breeding, conformation or anything else. (Have you seen that story of Elmer, the buck?)

Is this that little black and brown Nubian buckling? Pretty thing, though I'm not the Nubian expert, and his mom looks very nice too. You don't have to wether them right away. I've waited for three months without having any problems. For the older boys, as long as you use an "emasculator" tool, or something else that has hemostatic action, no problem.

[southerngurl]

Yes, it's the brown and black one.

Here are the pictures. She is a first freshener and has the two little ones on her.







And the little guy him self, such a sweetie.







They do have a nice clean place to stay, they wandered over into the chicken area there.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

All kids are cute. Not one person that I know would buy a buck because he is cute. If he didn't have good conformation you would not keep him period. You use or buy a buck because his dam is better than anything you have. Do you know that Pi (Lonesome Doe Three Pt One Four) is the first buck I have ever kept and used on my own showstock? Yes in the past I used and kept bucks of mine for milk, for my duaghters in 4H, but not on my girls.

I also would want to see alot more of your girl, yes it's a nice FF udder, but she looks like an older yearling, so I would expect to see more capacity. She also starts her rear udder way too low. It should be snugged up under her vulva. Who was she bred to to get you this little buckling? That's half the genetics right there.

What are your goals? If you need just a buck to freshen your goats next year than of course keep him. If you think you may be able to sell him for more intact than wethered than keep him intact.

But part of being a responsible livestock breeder is to cull, and to figure out early on what you are going to do with the kids you can't use on your property, nobody can afford to keep them all and give them all a good life. And the reality is that 99% of the bucklings at most farms are meat. Maybe not right this minute, but eventually. Vicki

[southerngurl]

I do understand cuteness is not the criteria for a buck, it's just hard to think of butchering him and it just has me wondering on what things to look for anyway. I wouldn't think I would sell him as a whether, it seems kinda silly to me to keep a sterile goat, when that same space could be occupied by a milk goat, ya know? If he's not kept a buck, he will probably be in the freezer.

I do appreciate the information!

She is actually coming up on 2 years this spring.

So, in breeding her, I should look for a buck that especially puts a good high rear udder with plenty of capacity on his offspring, and/or one who's dam has this quality, correct?

I'm trying to learn what to look for. What are generally good qualities to look for in a dairy goat? And then in nubians specifically?

Why do you want a higher rear udder, just to keep it tucked up there well and well attached?

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Absolutly, you want the udder snuggly attached all the way around. A doe with a snug udder as a FF will then have more of a chance to hold a very large udder full of milk as an older doe, without having it swinging between her legs. There are hundreds of websites with folks showing off thier goats, visit them, note their appraisal scores, much better to go by those rather than show wins, with sections of the US having less than competitive shows You will soon be able to see the difference in not only peoples goats they breed, but good and poor quality, and different types of Nubians. The ADGA appraisal booklet is free, well worth having to show you both good and bad conformation. Breeding a good sound doe who also milks well for 10 months is what it is all about. Vicki

[Jcran]

When I was in high school, I had "Henrietta", a strong-willed Alpine doe. As a kid, she was breath-taking and earned points towards a permanent champion...then she kidded. On that first freshening, she made the term "pendulous" an understatement. She went on to get mastitis a few years later as that massive mammary system quickly headed south and got stepped on or bumped continuously. I kept her until she was an old, old old lady as she was my first goat, but she didn't have kids after about 3 years old, if I recall correctly. They'd have had to dig a hole first to get to her dragging teats. Wether your little patootie unless he is the cream o' the crop.

[Laura Workman]

Woah, nelly! If I read correctly, we're looking at a very nearly empty udder here, right? I mean this is a first freshener with two five-day-old kid on her? I don't know about you all, and I SURE don't know about Nubians, but my girls fill up that rear udder only when everything else is full. And unless the udder is HORRID, you can't tell jack looking at an empty, hairy udder. At least I can't. I mean, from what we can see of the fore, for example, she could be smooth, or she could have a pocket you could hide a Mack truck in. Teat size and placement look good, medial looks good, laterals look good from the rear for an empty udder, and the rear is low, but empty. So before we start talking pendulous, I'd say, shave that udder and the belly in front of it and let it get good and full. Then we can really see attachments and rear udder height and width. Feel free to correct me if I'm out of line here.

To fill the udder, you have to take the kids off, which brings up something else - udder development on does that are dam-raising kids. I have a hypothesis on this that so far seems correct based on my experience, but I'll put it in another thread. For this one, I think it would be nice to see some shots of this doe with a clean, full udder before making any judgements as to whether this guy is breeding stock. (Of course, even if she has a great udder, his conformation will be a large factor, as will the existence of potential buyers.)

[southerngurl]

I'd hate to shave her, it's SO cold right now, she needs all the hair she's got!

Oh, the sire of the kids is A Proverbial Caprine Calypso. Penny's registered name is Cooterneck-Farm Sweet Penny .

[southerngurl]

I have a couple of pics of her already hosted online. These are from when I got her, last December. They're probably not the greatest to try and see conformation. She looks a little different now though, she's not as fat.

[southerngurl]

Here's one from right after she kidded. She looks wierd in it though. She has a look like "Oh my! I'm a mom!

[flannelberry]

He is adorable. FWIW I'd wether him. If you don't *need* a buck and you're not sure yet then have him as a companion. IME wethers have been great companions for my does and they have a calming influence. I have also had more success selling wethers than bucks.

[Laura Workman]

Well, like I said, you've got a while before you have to decide. Just try not to get too attached to him in the meantime so if you have to make a hard decision, it doesn't kill you. Maybe by decision time, it will have warmed up enough to clip her. In the meantime, I'd be separating those kids from her for 12 hours a day, whether you want the milk or not, so she can fully develop her udder.

[Kshobbit]

She is a fine looking doe, long body, good topline, wide in the front, legs look okay, nice size and placement of teats. You do need to milk her to see about the ease of milking, stream etc. Her rump is a little steep but she looks like a decent Nubian to me.
AS Vicki said the buck's sire is an important part of this decision. Your buck is half your herd and who he is and his conformation, and bloodlines are important.
You might put an ad in your local farm paper like Big Nikel, Good News, Pennysaver etc and see if you can find a buyer

[Corky]

I, being the goat genous I am... NOT!!!!.... would try to sell him as is, right away. Around here they don't want them wethered. They think the meat is better from a buck. I don't know. Unless you plan to feed him for months and then use him for your own meat, then I would wether him. Don't want him messin with Mom or any of the other does you might have.

I agree that you can't get anything for a buck. I had a buck that had the most awesome of bloodlines but he went for nothing when I was finished with him as no one around here raised that breed and the folks at the sale barn where I ended up selling him had no idea who Sausalito (sp?) was.
That is except the vet that cleared him for sale.
I have a funny feeling that the vet ended up buying him. He could not believe he was there. He said he had never seen a purebred buck with such good papers at a sale barn before. He said I could bet that he would take care of him personally. And he did. I left because I couldn't watch! There was a crowd around him when I drove away and the vets Daughter was in the pen with him hugging him. He was three years old and the father of everything I had on the place. I needed new blood lines.