why do yall??

goatlover270 · #1 01/26/07, 11:13 PM

I know that to some this may be a silly question, but for me it isn't.
I am just curious to know what the reason behind you dehorning your goats??? I have never done that and I find that the horns come in quite handy when I need to catch one LOL A nice handle to hold onto. it sure beats trying to grab 'em by the scruff

I think personally too that it is painful. Can you imagine, someone debuddin' you??? Ouch!!! It would be like denailing you, keepin' your nails from growin' or something like that....
Oh well opinions, everyone's got one

trnubian · #2 01/26/07, 11:27 PM

Well for dairy goats who are handled every day, twice a day, up close and personal, it is a safety issue. Those girls can hurt you without meaning to. Also other does are more able to injure the udders on their pen mates when tusseling. Goats with horns are MUCH more likely to get their head stuck in a fence. Therefore they are an easy target for predators, or just become a huge pain in the butt to free all the time. They ruin fences that way too.

Horns on a dairy goat are an automatic disqualification at a show for the reasons stated above.

Also most dairy goats don'thave to be "caught." They will come to you willingly. They are worked with a lot and crave human attention. If they need to be caught catch them by their collar.

goatlover270 · #3 01/26/07, 11:35 PM

ok that is information new to me since I do not do dairy or meat. I just couldn't help but think about how painful it is and hearing of people who got blood even....
I know goats love attention, as mine do as well, I give yall credit for doin' the collar thing. I wonder, do collars get caught on fences and such? I had a neighbor long time ago their goat got choked by one. Is why I ask.
Injuring udders, ouch, never seen that How do they do that? (curious again) I guess it is just hard for me, a person raising nondairy and meat goats to picture this... sorry to be so nosey.
Yall all have so really beautiful show goats and I love to see them, for sure.
Thanks for the info.

GoldenWood Farm · #4 01/27/07, 12:10 AM

Even if I had a pet goat I would dehorn it. It is just safer that way IMHO. Horns are just asking for trouble. My goats have never needed to be caught using a collar or anything but then again mine are bottleraised. None of my girls where collars really. I lead them around by the neck (meaning I can place my hand on their neck and lead them pretty well to the milkstand and back). If I need to I can throw a rope around their neck and call it good to go.

Also I do raise dairy goats. I don't even like the looks of horns on a goat...am I weird or what

. I prefer to disbud also because it is much LESS painful to disbud than maybe have one knock you in the jaw (OUCH!) or hurt themselves. I mean I have heard of peoples goats getting their horns knocked off or torn out and talk about OWWWW! I had one of my bucks do that with a nasty scur and boy was it bloody and nasty! Never would have happened if he had been disbudded. I warn people with kids against having goats with horns. It is just an accident waiting to happen. Half the time the goat never MEANS to do anything but with horns and kids.....almost anything could happen IMHO.

Ok I will shut up now

.

MotherClucker

goatkid · #5 01/27/07, 12:24 AM

I disbud all my goats. Most are dairy goats and I show them. They can't be shown with horns. I didbud the pets, wethers and meat goats as well. If someone wanted to purchase a goat with horns, I would require the animal be paid for or taken to it's new home before 2 weeks of age. Goats with horns are too aggressive with each other. I once had a horned Boer goat who put a big hematoma on the side of one of my Nubians during show season. I sold the Boer and retained her disbudded daughter. Though I have a pasture that my goats spend part of the day in, they spend alot of the time in a goat yard surrounded by cattle panels. If my goats had horns, I'd be out there all the time making sure no one was stuck in the fence. The goat yard is protection from coyotes and neighboring dogs. A stuck goat would be prey for them.

DocM · #6 01/27/07, 12:42 AM

Personally, if you had horns, would you want someone grabbing you by one? Disbudding doesn't hurt them anymore than castration does, and I'm betting you do that. Horned goats are a management nightmare. Every piece of equipment has to be oversized to account for horns. Goats with horns can be dangerous to other animals, people, and themselves. Even if I didn't show, I'd disbud all my goats.

jill.costello · #7 01/27/07, 06:51 AM

I, personally, have HORNED goats, but got them before I knew any better!

They are a "family group"; the two 2 yr old nannies are close-cousins who were babies together, and then I have the yearling wether-son of one of them. His Momma looooooves him, so no bickering there. I DID just choose to re-home Troubles, the yearling doeling, because her mother and brother were using their horns on her a bit much, and it was only a matter of time before she got "hooked" in the wrong soft spot...

Lukily for me, we were able to build our fence in such a way that they don't get caught in it. Also, the have enough room to get out of each other's way if someone is feeling like a crabby-butt.

If I was relying on their health/milk/meat for my families well-being, I would certainly choose the de-horned route in the future. But, as pets, with a bit of judicious "bad-goatie!" yelling and DH's big stick

[that they ignore], we manage to enjoy them a ton, horns and all!!

trnubian · #8 01/27/07, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goatlover270

ok that is information new to me since I do not do dairy or meat. I just couldn't help but think about how painful it is and hearing of people who got blood even....
I know goats love attention, as mine do as well, I give yall credit for doin' the collar thing. I wonder, do collars get caught on fences and such? I had a neighbor long time ago their goat got choked by one. Is why I ask.
Injuring udders, ouch, never seen that How do they do that? (curious again) I guess it is just hard for me, a person raising nondairy and meat goats to picture this... sorry to be so nosey.
Yall all have so really beautiful show goats and I love to see them, for sure.
Thanks for the info.

Disbudding IS painful. However, it is not more so than castration mentioned before. It is ussually done when they kids are anywhere from 4 dys to 2 weeks of age. If done correctly there is no blood because the iron cauterizes all the blood vessels going to the horn bud. (Which is what keeps them from growing.) It takes about a minute total (and that is a LONG time- usually 10-16 seconds for each horn bud.)

We use collars on our does because they tend to stay inside alot (the lazy things.) And they don't come into contact with things they can get "hung up on." I know many peolple don't use collars for that reason. Like said before, most goats are able to be lead by a hand on their neck or grab a peice of baling twine.

Goats udders can be damaged by a nasty tempered goat's horn knocking it, or worse snagging it.

mary,tx · #9 01/27/07, 08:58 AM

I do collar mine and teach them to be led by the collar. Never mind that they come when I call them, they don't necessarily always go where I want them in the barn without a little leading. I use the plastic collars which break when they get caught on something. I've lost a few collars over the years, but no goats from being stuck!

Most of my does are naturally hornless (polled). Two of my first goats were horned, and they were beautiful, good animals, but I would not have another horned goat. They can and will use them as weapons on the other goats. And I had one otherwise nice, horned doe butt my little daughter up against the barn wall once. So I always had to watch her when DD was in the barn. And, of course, as others have mentioned, horns get stuck in things.

Though I did use those horns as handles, the goats did NOT like it!

Disbudding makes the little ones scream for the few seconds you are doing it. You put them down and they start bouncing, so I don't think it does them any serious injury.

mary

AllWolf · #10 01/27/07, 10:23 AM

All of my goats don't have anyone horns but one. He going to have to have his horns off later because as he gets older he will want to use his horns on my other little goats which isn't good. Why my goats don't have horns is one I have mostly dairy goats. Two they are very dangerous for childern to be around a horned goat because a goat with horns might accidenlty buck a child with the horn and may get the child with it horns and do injury or a horned goat might get their head stuck in a fence and try to get out and break it neck.

goatlover270 that wasn't a silly question at all.

DocM · #11 01/27/07, 10:28 AM

You can dehorn a mature horned animal, without cutting or digging the horns out.

I've used this method several times and it works great.

http://www.greatgoats.com/articles/dehorning_text.html

fcnubian · #12 01/27/07, 12:05 PM

We disbud. My nubians are show animals, they have to be disbudded for showing. My pygmys are disbudded because of the safety issue. Safety to them and to us. Horns are very dangerous. It only takes one time goat raising its head to poke your eye out. I wont have it here. I sold off horned goats. I hated the horns. They always got caught up in the fence, and always hit them on my legs. Maybe not on purpose all the time but it still hurt and they had to go. Now I raise goats with no horns. We get the kids disbudded within the first week they are born.

Sweet Goats · #13 01/27/07, 12:18 PM

We have Cashmere. They HAVE to have their horns to show, plus if they were to sweat, they would ruin their cashmere, so they release their body heat through their horns, same wit hAngoras. I would NEVER own a animal that I had to do that to. That is just me.

goatlover270 · #14 01/27/07, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocM

Personally, if you had horns, would you want someone grabbing you by one? Disbudding doesn't hurt them anymore than castration does, and I'm betting you do that. Horned goats are a management nightmare. Every piece of equipment has to be oversized to account for horns. Goats with horns can be dangerous to other animals, people, and themselves. Even if I didn't show, I'd disbud all my goats.

"Disbudding doesn't hurt them anymore than castration does, and I'm betting you do that."
DOCM... I take it that you castrate your bucks? No, I personally do not castrate my bucklings or billy goats either one. I have a seperate section they all go when they get old enough, like around 3-4 months and then when they are old enough to take care of themselves, they go out where the older billy goats go and they all roam and play and enjoy themselves out there. So, the answer on that would be no, I do not. Jokinly now and don't take it to heart, LOL but you woulda lost that bet

It's all good.

I want to just let yall know, as I previously stated in my post, I was only just voicing my opinion, not out to put anyone down for doing the disbuddin'. It is just that I don't like it myself. I never have disbudded and never have had any troubles with any of the goats, in all the years. I have friends that don't disbud either and really don't have troubles with theirs and the thing about theirs, they are in more closed quarters than mine and they get along fine. I guess it all might, depend on breed or something I don't know. Everyone does things differently and some gotta do what they gotta do. No big deal. I really do think it is neat doing the diary thing, I just don't have alot of time to do that at this time with the rescue and all that is enough work in itself. Yall keep up the good work though and I wish yall luck with each of your goaties.
It is nice though, seriously to see how each individual raises their goats and things they do to make things work and make progress. I have enjoyed reading the opinions of each one.
Have a wonderful day and God Bless!

DocM · #15 01/27/07, 01:01 PM

Oh brother.

Patty0315 · #16 01/27/07, 01:01 PM

I would think putting a group of bucks and bucklings together in rutting season is just plain dangerous. I for one would not want to go into tht pasture. Do you ever have bloody fights ? Maybe your goats behave better than mine {smile} !

I disbud also . I have had horns get caught and I have gotten caught by horns . Neither is fun.

Patty

PTNTEXAS · #17 01/27/07, 03:40 PM

Thanks for the article DocM, I have a couple Ive been meaning to do. It will help me out alot. My grandbaby loves my goats but those horns keep me worried the whole time, they have gotten me accidently a couple of times.

stanb999 · #18 01/27/07, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patty0315

I would think putting a group of bucks and bucklings together in rutting season is just plain dangerous. I for one would not want to go into tht pasture. Do you ever have bloody fights ? Maybe your goats behave better than mine {smile} !

I disbud also . I have had horns get caught and I have gotten caught by horns . Neither is fun.

Patty

You have bloody fights because you disbud.

The horns act as shock absorbers in a butting contest. When removed the goats are forced to smash their flesh into their skulls. This causes the blood you see.

I know I will be flamed yet again but.
Goats should be raised as a family herd young,old and male,female all together. Let them breed as they will. Only the healthiest and strongest bucks should mate (they will decide who.). You get only one milking a day. This is usually taken in the morning. They are fed only browse.

This is a really odd way to raise goats in the US. But it is the way it has been done for thousands of years in Africa and the middle east. And no they don't disbud.

mary,tx · #19 01/27/07, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanb999

You have bloody fights because you disbud.

The horns act as shock absorbers in a butting contest. When removed the goats are forced to smash their flesh into their skulls. This causes the blood you see.

I know I will be flamed yet again but.
Goats should be raised as a family herd young,old and male,female all together. Let them breed as they will. Only the healthiest and strongest bucks should mate (they will decide who.). You get only one milking a day. This is usually taken in the morning. They are fed only browse.

This is a really odd way to raise goats in the US. But it is the way it has been done for thousands of years in Africa and the middle east. And no they don't disbud.

I had two does accidentally bred by a half-brother at 5 months old this year. (Actually three, but I aborted one and missed the other two.

)
I surely wouldn't be breeding them that young on purpose, and one of them is going to have leg problems because of it. If you run them all together you are not only going to get a lot of inbreeding, but you are going to have does kidding much too young.
mary

Jcran · #20 01/27/07, 03:51 PM

Short(boy, genes are amazing things)statured 7-year old daughter +horned goats = events which send my "parentnoia" into spiraling out of control. She's been whacked by disbudded goats of all sizes plenty o'times-natural consequences, etc. but I make sure I'm with her when she's in with my two does that have horns...they are RIGHT at "you'll put yer eye out" level.