Getting goats for the first time

[Vashti]

My family is looking for goats for milking and some for meat. I've been thinking about lemanches and boers...about three of each to start. We have about three acres and a large old sheep barn with corrals. We also have access to adjacent fields, and will be purchasing additional land of our own very soon.

I don't want to rush into getting my goats - especially after reading posts here regarding uneducated goat owners. I want to be sure to take good care of my animals, and also not risk bringing sick animals onto my property.

Is there anything that I should do TO my property before bringing them in? Do I need to sanitize the ground or barn? I've lived here for about five years now, but we have had dogs and they need to be de-wormed from time to time. Also, there are some stray cats in the area that don't look particularly healthy always, I know that at least one of them has had ring worm.

I've purchased a couple of books off of amazon, but would love to have recommendations for essentials, as I just searched for "goats" and "raising goats" and didn't ask anyone what I should be reading. Yes, I know...this was silly and probably a waste of money - thats why I'm asking now.

I've read that initially it's probably best to wait on getting a buck until your herd is bigger. I'm probably going to start with three of each lemanche's and boers, and would need two different bucks, each of different blood lines than my does. I've read about bucks and I understand their temperaments and tendancies, and that they're pretty much stinky sweethearts. I'm not sure that I want a buck in the beginning though. I do know that they would need a whether to keep them company too. Does anyone recommend getting bucks when you're first starting out, or is it common belief that you should wait. I'm happy to wait anyway, but would like some advice.

Please let me know if there is anything else I should be doing. We're going to work on our barn as soon as we're dug out...have someone coming to plow our snow today hopefully. I'm in SE Colorado, and would love recommendations for trusted breeders as well. Thank you kindly for reading my post and for letting me know how to be a responsible owner & breeder of these fine animals.

[Jim S.]

My best advice is to plan well now, before you get the goats. Set your goals now and decide how you are going to get there. It's easier on the animals and on you.

No need to "sanitize." You do need good fences! We have one we named Harriet Houdini becaue as a doeling she could squeeze out of a field fence where just a single cross wire had been dropped to make the hole bigger. Make sure there are no holes. Set up your barn now with aisles and pens to make working the animals easier. Better than chasing them!

Personally, I'd look for one dual-use breed to milk and use for meat. You'd slaughter the kids at 6-8 months (tender cabrito) and 10-12 months (chevon for barbecue). Mama would give you milk. If you get heavy enough milkers, there could be enough for kid and you, reducing your bottle feeding workload (if you are willing to share). See what is available locally. If you have just one breed, it will be lots easier on you.

A group of gals will be fine together. Goats just don't like to be alone.

On the billy(buck) question, you won't need him til your goats are 8-12 months old (depending on breed and conformation). Don't breed nannies(does) too small, regardless of age. A wether can run with the billy as company when he's not with the girls. Alternately, you could run the billy with the nannies all the time (in fact, this is the way the vast majority of herds are kept, according to surveys). That means your kidding season will be wider, and in some climates may be year-around. Helps keep you in milk, but takes more management work than a compact kidding season.

Quarantine new goats before they enter the herd for at least 7 days to make sure they are healthy. Any listless animal or animals with visible symptoms should not enter the main herd til it is cured. Be sure you are fenced for quarantine.

We like to buy cattle range cubes to tame them up. Break some of the cubes into smaller pieces and carry them around in your pockets. The goats will soon key in on you if you hand out treats whenever they come around.

Start thinking now about which guardian animal you wish to have...dog, donkey, llama? Best to get it right off instead fo suffering losses first.

STUDY DISEASES and presentations for them. Be sure you know how common troubles "look" when they appear, especially excess worm load, coccidosis, overeating disease, scours, urinary calci, and Ort (soremouth). It gives you a jump on treatment to recognize things earlier. And it is a lot less worry to know that yucky-looking stuff like Ort just looks bad but isn't really all that bad.

Books:

Raising Milk Goats Successfully, Gail Luttman

Raising Meat Goats for Profit, Gail Bowman

Meat Goats: Their History, Management and Diseases, Stephanie Mitchum, Allison Mitchum

Diseases of the Goat, John G. Matthews (VERY expensive!)

Merck Veterinary Manual (or use the online edition)

[Vashti]

I'm a bit confused...regarding the running the billy with the nannies. I've read that if you do so you're nannies will be stinky (not really my concern) and that the milk could be tainted with the scent/flavor. Does this really happen? I'm also a bit worried about unexpected kidding if I have the billy run with them. Is it relatively easy to tell if a doe is pregnant? I've seen many posts here and on other forums that leads me to worry that as an inexperienced goat owner I may not be able to tell if my nannies are with child.

I have Gail Bowman's book on the way, the others I'll add immediately. Thank you for the reading suggestions.

We have a couple of Bernese Mountain Dogs that we'll use as guardian animals. Do you think they'll be sufficient?

[Tam319]

Your Bernese Mtn dogs are likely pets/farm dogs, correct? You may want to look into a guardian animal that lives with the herd full time, year round. Livestock guardian dogs are breeds that have been specifically bred and raised for centuries to guard livestock. They bond with their herd/flock and live with them year round, choosing to stay with the animals over human companionship. If you are going to be raising a decent sized herd and predators are a problem I would definitely recommend a dog, llama or donkey specifically for the purpose of guarding the livestock. For a backyard hobby flock of a few animals you might get away without, as long as they are fairly close to your house and predators (coyotes, stray dogs) are not prevalent in your area.

Good luck! Goats rock and are highly addictive! LOL

[Vashti]

hmm...ok I"ll look into something else then definately. We live in the country and there are pretators out here for certain. I didn't know that llamas were guardian animals, and that sounds so fun. I'll be sure and look into them thoroughly and choose what would be wise for our family. I'm so very excited!!!

[AllWolf]

Congrats on going to get goats later.

You need to have a good strong fence to keep goats in. Know what types of meds you need to keep on hand just incase a goat gets sick. You need to read as many goat care books as can but you can find tons of great information on the internet. I wouldn't get a buck yet until it's about time to start breeding and make sure then when you get a buck you have a pen for a buck to stay in alone with having him a buddy to run with.
Find out what types of feed you want to feed your goats and remember to always give loose goat minerals because that is very important. Check out other people websites and read what they say about goats. When get a buck make sure he is getting medicated pellets to help prevent UC which can deadly to bucks. Me I would never run a buck with my gals. When it is breeding season and I know when my gals are in season I take them to the bucks pen for him to do his deed.
When adding new goats to the herd. Pen them away from the others until 2 weeks to make sure not sick. Me when I purchase a new goat from a different goat breeder I pen them away from the others for 4 weeks to make 100% sure not sick. I don't have to do that hardly at all because where I purchase my goats I know what type of health they are in. Only time I have pen one away from the others is when I purchased a little buck from a different person plus gave him all the shots he needed and wormed him alone with having the vet to come to check him over and then done blood work to check for problems.

Forgot a few more things.
Make sure you find out what wormers are working in your state or area.
See if SE is a problem in your area if so you may have to give shots of BO-SE to your goats.

When it comes to me having new babies in a stall in a barn. I always spray down the stall to help kill germs with blench water and make sure everything is dry. That also helps to keep down Cocci. If you later have chickens always make sure to cover the hay up so the chickens can't poo all over it because if do the goats will not eat it. Also make sure to never feed moldy hay to goats because it can kill them or make them awful sick. Me sure they have clean drinking water and plenty of water at all times.

Others will help you also.

Everyone has different ways of taking care of their goats.

Good Luck on what type you get

[Madge]

Vashti, I feel very envious! It's such a fun time when you are researching and planning. Going out to look at different sorts of goats is even better.
Whatever breed you decide on, go with your heart. You're going to have them decorating your property for a number of years so choose something you really love the look and temperament of .

My other bit of advice would be to buy good pedigree stock to start with. Then the kids you produce will be worth something if and when you want to sell them. It takes just as much time/care/worry and money to rear a not-so-good kid as it does one which you will be really proud of.

And, don't forget, goats are very addictive. You start with two and..hey..you turn around and ...where did those other fifteen come from?

[Vashti]

Ok originally I thought I'd get three nubian does (adult, already milking). Now I'm thinking that I want kids to start...with good bloodlines and pedigrees. I've gone from wanting just a couple of dairy goats to thinking I might want those and a herd of boers for profit. I've learned so much in the past couple of days, and I can't stop reading about goats! LOL

Ok. No buck...at least to start. That's my final decision. Hubby wanted to jump right in, and almost brought a couple of kids home for me as a surprise, but I want to wait and do some more work on my barn first. I also have ZERO equipment and meds. I need to stock up!!! There are some holes in the floor of my barn that need filling for safety, and I need to shore up the center walking lane and add feeding troughs (or whatever you call them :-).

I also need to learn what to feed them...duh. and where I can get a supply locally. Hubby was so sweet to want to surprise me. I can't believe he would do so when we're so horribly unprepared! We're having someone dig our snow out today finally, so I'll be working on the barn this afternoon. I'm going to call the local vet (who has dairy goats herself) and talk to her about care.

Also, I think I'm going to pay some local goat owners a few visits before I get my own goats. I'd like to learn to milk before I brought my own home, and talk about their care in person with some other breeders. I also want to meet some of the different breeds in person.

Thank you all for your advice. I'll keep you updated. I think I want to take my time and really make sure that I am prepared for my babies before bringing them home. Many blessings to you all.

[Tam319]

Great idea!! We've always had pygmy goats as pets and this past month I decided to get "serious" about goats. I'm a stay-at-home Mom and wanted to get into livestock as a job. Goats were a natural choice as they are smaller and easier for me to handle on my own. I thought I'd get into dairy goats as well, but after researching the market, talking to different breeders and the cost of start up (waaaaaay cheaper to have doe raised meat goats versus getting set up for milking). Once I decided I wanted meat goats I started touring different farms. We ended up bringing home a herd of 26 Savanna does last Sunday. Lovely creatures!! So it has been a real process and I am really excited about having a goat business. I also pre-ordered two Nubian doelings for my dairy fix, but I am happy that our main focus has been the meat goats. We also brought home a Maremma livestock guardian puppy on the weekend and she seems to know her job already. Here is a picture of our pup "Luna" with her goats:
http://bp2.blogger.com/_ib28C65X6DM/...h/101_0179.JPG

I've heard good things about llamas as guard animals. Apparently they are a good fit as they have many of the same nutritional and health requirements (even same vaccine schedule I've been told) as goats so they fit right in.

Best of luck!! It is such an exciting time to be getting into these critters!

[pookshollow]

It sounds to me like you're doing everything the right way - good for you!

Ok originally I thought I'd get three nubian does (adult, already milking). Now I'm thinking that I want kids to start...with good bloodlines and pedigrees. I've gone from wanting just a couple of dairy goats to thinking I might want those and a herd of boers for profit. I've learned so much in the past couple of days, and I can't stop reading about goats! LOL

Why don't you start with one doe in milk, and a couple of kids to breed down the road? Otherwise, it's a long wait until you've got milk. Also, I would suggest getting a doe that is used to being hand-milked. It will make your life so much easier! Then you'll know what you're doing when your young does come into milk for the first time (somebody should! LOL)

[Vashti]

Thank you for the picture, Tam...Luna looks wonderful!

I think that getting a doe in milk that is used to being hand milked is a good idea...thank you. That's probably what I'll do, now that I think about it. I have a couple more books coming in the mail by the end of the week, and I'm planning a couple of visits to herds this weekend. Woot!!!

[vancom]

We did this 2 years ago. We started with a mother/daughter pair of Lamanchas we purchased already bred from a nearby reputable breeder. No milk until they gave birth within days of one another in March 2006.

We sold the mother and one of her newest daughters to a fellow HT member, keeping 3 does and 2 of the boys we had neutered since I "promised" our (human) kids we'd do so. We added a Lamancha buck this fall, and we are waiting for March/April babies.

A big question for us has been why are we doing this? Milk and meat. The girls we will raise up and watch bloodlines improve; the boys we will raise for meat this year. We loved, and continue to love (yum!) the 2 pigs we raised this summer/fall, and we are now used to meat from our little farm and want to enjoy what we produce again this coming summer.

We plan to have 4 does/doelings after this breeding, essentially adding one to the group and selling the others once we see how things progress.

We do NOT keep the does and boys together. We are big milk drinkers, and yes, the smell of the buck will be all over everything! We don't mind the smell--on our outside work clothes, yes, but we sure don't want it in our milk. We milk indoors, in our cement-floored, stone-lined cellar, and then the milk goes into the cellar fridge with the hens' eggs. We hold the milk in 1/2 gallon mason jars after straining, and screw down plastic lids in a day or so. We do strain the cream (for the dogs) and drink all the milk we can get our hands on! However, this weekend was the end of milking--2 months prior to the time we think our does will be starting to kid. We miss the milk already!

So have a plan! It may take a year or two to get started and each year you add to it, so planning is still important even down the road.

Vanessa
near Nashville