why did he die

mberryrfd · #1 12/30/06, 07:57 AM

OK so goats were fed at 4pm and all was fine at 5 pm Son came in the house and said " why is ANDY standing their making noise." I got boots and coat on went outside as he was taking his last breath..
There was no signs of any trama other than he was swollen at the belly near his rear so much his leg was up in the air.
The only thing I can think of He got rammed and was hurt internally, and bleeding internally.

The other goats were kinda standing there looking at him like come on now get up. Was all kinda weird they way they were around him

trob1 · #2 12/30/06, 08:44 AM

I am so sorry. Losing them is so hard and to not know why is even harder. Sounds almost like a urinary blockage with the swelling that far back. Had you seen him urinate lately?

Sher · #3 12/30/06, 09:01 AM

I am so sorry for your loss. But I do think if I had to guess..Teresa is right..UC.

mberryrfd · #4 12/30/06, 09:10 AM

THis was a 4 month old fb boer wether who had been pefectly healthy in what we had observed. And we have does do anyday so we have been obsevering quite regularly

tinknal · #5 12/30/06, 09:22 AM

Sounds kind of like bloat to me. Gruesome as it sounds, do a simple PM on him. Cut him open and if you find clotted blood it is an internal injury. If the rumen is full of gas, I'd lean towards bloat HOWEVER, they will usually bloat after death so it is not sure fire.

susanne · #6 12/30/06, 09:41 AM

sorry you lost your little buckling.
with uc i guess you would have seen some symptoms. the swellling an hour after feeding could indicate bloat. internal injury is a possibility too.

Patty0315 · #7 12/30/06, 12:11 PM

What did they eat ? Sounds like bloat.

Patty

nduetime · #8 12/30/06, 12:55 PM

I am too new at goats or maybe too insecure ( just lost my first after seven years of goats) to make any attempt at giving advice or a reason for death. Suffice it to say I am so sorry you lost him, I know how it feels, we just just lost a darling little 5 month old doeling day after christmas. This morning my vet did say that bloat can come on and kill very quickly and sometimes there is just nothing we can do. My condolences.

tinknal · #9 12/30/06, 01:24 PM

Here is what I use for bloat (on cattle, but will work for a goat). A very large guage IV needle and a 60 cc schringe. Stick the needle directly into the rumen high up. Put the schringe (without the plunger) on the needle. The barrel of the schringe will act as an amplifier and you can hear the gas come out. If the needle becomes pluged (no sound), use the plunger to push the blockage our and remove. This works much better than a trocar, as the hole is very small and usually does not get infected. I have in an emergency used a knife to poke a hole in them. Strike down sharply into the bloat. This will create a wound that should be stiched, and will probably develop into an infection. If you use a knife or trocar immediatly put them on antibiotics.

tinknal · #10 12/30/06, 01:26 PM

I don't know about goats, but a good rule of thumb on cattle is if the rumen swells as high as the backbone or higher, it is crunch time and you need to take action NOW.

JAM · #11 12/31/06, 05:39 AM

We keep a pan of baking soda in our goat pens. It is said to avoid bloat.

mberryrfd · #12 12/31/06, 07:42 AM

Guess I should have put the feed in
we feed alfalfa 90% of the time with ocassionanal
pellets that has DE in it
but this meal was oat hay all I could get ( but that is a whole nother post)

lphlady · #13 12/31/06, 11:54 AM

My guess would be urinary calculi since the swelling was at the back and not in the area of the rumen? It may have been coming on for the last 24 hours, but once it starts, can cause blockage fairly quickly and will cause swelling and pain. Check the area where he urinates from, there may be "crystals" on the hair in that area. Once it develops, there is rarely a fix for it and they are seldom saved so I have read. Sorry for your loss, it always hurts no matter how long you've had goats or how often you experience the death of your goatie

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #14 12/31/06, 02:09 PM

How much oat hay could he have eaten and was this a change from the alfalfa and goat grain to oat hay with visable oats on it in one feeding? Bloat wouldn't kill immediatly like this, but enterotoxemia does kill like this with symptoms of bloat from the offending bacteria. Both bloat and entero would have your buck in screaming pain, and he likely would not be standing normally but with his legs appart and in shock. He would be down for death. UC would not be an instantaineous death, he would have been in pain for sometime before his bladder filled to the point of bursting, and then he would have slowly died of high fever septicemia.

He was either bitten by something that caused the swelling, or the change of feed brought on entero. Little to no real grains in goat pellets for his rumen to be used to them.. Vaccinated or not, a change in feed drastic enough couldn't have helped the buck. Especially with this being new hay and nothing from the old diet that the bacteria in his rumen was used to.

When adding anything new to the diet, worse is when you run out of something and have to buy something new, you have to treat them like new goats then, they are better off hungry and eating grass hay or nothing at all, and given small amounts several times a day, don't ever put out a whole bale of something new when it's such a change like alfalfa to oat hay. We are waiting on our oat hay right now, and the girls will get one flake between 8 big does, it will take several weeks for them to have free choice oat hay in the hay feeder. They will think I am starving them! Sorry this happened. Vicki

mberryrfd · #15 12/31/06, 04:12 PM

I have feed the oat hay before but not in a while.
alfalfa if you can find it is upwards of 10 bucks a bale while oats are about 6 bucks a bale.
This only affected him.As far as bitten by something.We did think maybe a rattler but it sure has been cold out.
Then there is the snow. I think we wound up with a bit over a foot so I really think all snakes would be hibernating.
might have been from the swtich to oat hay and yes it does have some oats still in it.

And having a buch of HINGRY goats doesnt sound like fun to me

Kaye White · #16 01/01/07, 12:15 PM

I agree with Vicki....sounds typical of entrotoxemia. Especially, the fast onset of the bloat and death. Entro can strike at any time and more especially when the feed is changed suddenly or from an over-abundance. UC would take enough time to have noticed the kid sick.
Kaye