Having to rebreed a LOT of the girls I bred to this one buck...

[Jillis]

The really expensive Nigie buck.

I am hoping it is just due to his inexperience?

Or do does seem to go back into heat a month or more after being bred?

The ones I have bred to the 2 Alpines, who are even younger, are not going back into heat...

I am very inexperienced at this. When a doe goes into heat, she can't stay away from the fence, and flags furiously as she flirts with the bucks, who are acting coo coo because she is in heat.

I bring her to the buck I want to breed her to, and watch the whole time, sometimes helping to hold the doe if she is skittish. I usually bring the doe back a second or even third time in about a 2 day time span. I try to observe carefully if penetration ios occurring, but sometimes it is very fast. I try to observe if the doe hunches and the buck throws his head back. I think I am doing okay...

But every doe I have bred to this expensive Nigie buck has recycled.

I only have 3 does that I HAVE to breed to him, due to the fact that they are Nigies. I did breed him to a few of my larger girls because I want some minis.

I sure hope he isn't shooting blanks...

[AnnaS]

First thing I'd do is have a vet look at a semen sample from this buck. It shouldn't be an expensive test- it's just looking at a slide under a microscope. Most vets should be able to do this for you.

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by AnnaS

First thing I'd do is have a vet look at a semen sample from this buck. It shouldn't be an expensive test- it's just looking at a slide under a microscope. Most vets should be able to do this for you.

Yep, sure will save you a lot of time, trouble and guessing.

[moonspinner]

How old is the buck? Do you mean you are breeding 2-3 times over the entire standing heat? That should do it, but you might want to try a couple breedings during each exposure. Do you look at the doe right after the breeding to see if semen is apparent? This doesn't always happen, but more often than not in my experience you can see some dripping out. When you say your does come back in a month after breeding, I'm wondering if they are having backup heats (around a week after initial breeding). If the matings didn't take, they should be having a normal three week cycle.
I'm in western NY and I've had an unusally difficult time getting my does bred this fall, due to extreme weather changes. My problem has been backup heats. Have you noticed any heat signs a week or so after exposing them to your buck?
It's very unusual for bucks to be infertile but I guess it does happen.

[waygr00vy]

I have had a hard time getting my nigerians and pygmys bred this year. I know a few other breeders who have said the same thing as well. One was about to sell some of her does thinking it was them...I think it is definitely from the crazy weather patterns we have had...We had a very unusually dry hot year, and even last winter was very mild. 3 of my does are bred and due late january, so I know it is not the buck, but the rest weren't wanting to settle...although I think finally most are bred (knocking on wood!)...most of my does should have been bred for babies this fall....

[manygoatsnmore]

How young was your buck at the time of service? Some of the guys just take longer to become sexually mature and potent, just like with humans. Having a sample run is an excellent idea.

[Jillis]

At the time of the first breedings he might have been anywhere from 6 to 8 months old...

Sometimes we see what looks like semen dripping, sometimes we don't...and yes, I did see some girls go into backup heats about 5 days later---does this mean they didn't settle? We let them go at it until the buck stops jumping on her. Sometimes it looks as if they have done it 2 or 3 times each meeting, we do try to have them together about 3 separate sessions each heat cycle.

My friend has said she had to rebreed a lot of Nigies she bred to a mature buck that is NOT sterile, because she used him last year successfully.

Why would the weather patterns affect settling? If a doe is in heat, doesn't that mean she has eggs ready? Would the crazy weather affect whether or not she conceives? We have been having unusually warm weather for VT. We had a green Christmas this year!!! Finally got some snow today---only our second snowfall of the year!

How do you collect a semen sample? Does the vet have to collect it?

Thanks for all your answers!

[susanne]

since he bred some of your niggies sucsessfully i think it might have something to do with the difference in size and not so much his semen quality.
wether can have an impact on breeding.i would not have two days in between breedings as they are only a couple of hours fertile. if i would want minis i would let the does in with the buck and not hand breed them. it should be easy for you to see the icky tail and have due dates.

[moonspinner]

It's been my experience that the backup heat is the one that counts - when the doe is ovulating (though I've had some tell me their does get bred on the first heat), so if you're not breeding these girls on that secondary heat, then you'll need to. Also, yes, weather has wreaked havoc on getting my girls bred this year. I usually have one or two every year that throw the backup heat but this year four of mine have done this - 1/3rd of my does. In the northeast extreme weather and rollercoaster temps have been the order of fall. Around western NY we've had the warmest December in history. Finally, a buck 6-8 months may not be able to handle the job yet. I've heard from two friends whose ND bucks were not settling does until after nine months of age.

[Jillis]

Thank you for your replies...susanne, I probably didn't explain too well---I have only bred one of my Nigies so far, and it looked to me as if she went into a mild heat once or twice since---but since she is a herd queen, someone said that she might display some heat symptoms if another doe is in heat?

The other Nigie does are a tad too young to be bred just yet...might wait until February at least for the 4 biggest and next year for sure for the smallest...but I do need to have a fertile Nigie buck for them, and I hope he is, because I paid big bucks for his bloodlines, he is a beautiful boy and his lineage includes several championship milkers.

I do want some minis, but I can at least breed all the dairy girls to one of my Alpine boys.

The doe I bred first, my biggest girl, a gorgeous Nubian, was bred to the big Alpine buck, Kronk. She is about halfway through her gestation, her first pregnancy, and she is getting noticeably wider. I don't know if this means she has a lot of kids in there, because I wouldn't think the kids are at the stage where they are getting bulky---usually that is the last month or less of the pregnancy, isn't it? Of course, she is a big goat, and so is the buck I bred her to, for his age. He comes from big stock. I am excited. If no one else settles, at least I'll have some milk for myself!

[susanne]

jillis think about women. some like me were getting a belli as soon as the pregnancy was confirmend i was so big i could not see my feed at the end of pregnancy and everybody thought i had at least twins. nope, only one. others like my japanese neighbor surprized everybody when she was showing she was pregnant and four weeks later she had a baby girl. this is so true for goats too.

if that would be my does i guess i would use one of the big boys now because it is late in the breeding season. it is always time to start the mini line next year and who knows, some of your girls might be pregnant and have a little bit of hormone swings because of pregnancy adjustments.

moonspinner i have one line of does that go into second heat after seven days and that second heat is the one they need to get breed. i have no idea why that is this way.

[PygmyLover]

My nigerian dwarf Aspen seemed to have gone into heat 21 days after being bred (just a little red and slightlys swollen) but didn't act bucky call loudly (louder then normal) or flag her tail etc, all normal for her heats. So now I have to wait 2 more weeks for her next heat to see if she is bred. I am really hopeing she is. The buck was blue-eyed and handsome - but I know I can use him again, I just want kids in April not in June.

[GoldenWood Farm]

I am betting size is the culprit on this one. I have a nigie buck who is just coming of a year and he is TINY. No way in HECK could he reach one of my full grown girls without TONS of help (aka a boost or something). I know people say where there is a will there is a way but I somehow doubt they where thinking of a nigie buckling breeding a standard doe when they said that .

I don't think it would have anything to do with him not being potent but more with him just being tiny right now.

Also I agree with what susanne said about goats being different. I am able to tell on my girls pretty well by the time they are a month along if they are pregnent sometimes even earlier. They don't get "big bellys" persay..but they just look different. But I have had some of my gals start showing bellys as soon as 2 months along. That for me at least lets me know they are in all likley hood carrying triplets or more. But they can and will fool you. The last of my girls are FINALLY starting to get bellys on them (last ones are due in mid march). My first ones due are big as houses right now and they have a month and 2 weeks to go .

But I feel your pain BIGTIME on having does come back into heat this late . I had that happen last year and I was about ready to start bawling my eyes out as I was so frustrated with the girls .

MotherClucker

[GoldenWood Farm]

Oh one other thing.

On the going back in heat thing SOMETIMES not all the time it is a false heat. I say this because I had a young doe who is bred (was going to wait on her but her FATHER didn't want to ) and I was glad as she came back into heat 21 days after he bred her. So big sigh of relief there....but...her stomach kept getting bigger (still is) so I took her in to be ultrasounded....she is carrying at least twins maybe triplets . So sometimes they can seemingly some into heat but it is just a false one (I know..just one more thing you want to worry about now huh ).

MotherClucker

[PygmyLover]

Mother clucker that is what I am hoping happened with my Aspen.

[moonspinner]

Also, for Jillis, bred does can sometimes show heat symptoms - like flagging - in pregnancy. All just normal hormonal stuff. Just one more thing to have you worrying whether or not they're bred!

[Jillis]

I do know that when a few of them seemed to be possibly back in heat it wasn't quite as strong or as long as the first time when I bred them...I did wonder whether or not it could be pg hormone swings...

For me, it is not actually that late in the breeding season. I don't want babies too early, because of the extreme cold in our area. I have quite a few dairy girls that I will be breeding in February because they are a tad too young as yet. I am also trying to stagger the breedings so I don't have to have everyone giving birth at once, because I do not have enough experience to deal with too many births at a time, especially if one has problems. I do have experienced people I can call on, one lives down the hill from me, but I still don't want a three-ring birthing circus if I can help it! So for me, it works to breed one each week or every two weeks as they come into heat.

In fact, I bred my big Nubian as soon as she started bellowing because I had literally never seen her in heat before, and she had been with a buck for a month last year and never settled. So she will give birth mid-March, which is COLD and snowy around here...

[Jillis]

Originally Posted by MotherClucker

I am betting size is the culprit on this one. I have a nigie buck who is just coming of a year and he is TINY. No way in HECK could he reach one of my full grown girls without TONS of help (aka a boost or something). I know people say where there is a will there is a way but I somehow doubt they where thinking of a nigie buckling breeding a standard doe when they said that.

Actually, we put the buck on a rock! We watched carefully and held the does in place, and it looked to us as if penetration took place. What an occupation! One or two of the Alpines are actually starting to round out a little on the right side, so I am hoping maybe they have settled...I just was able to see it today. I am noticing that once you first notice some possible baby growth, it grows faster after that first notice.

I am a little more hopeful than when I started this thread, and I have also learned a LOT more, thanks to all of you. Once again, this forum has proved to be a tremendous and supportive resource. I am grateful.

[AllWolf]

I had a doe to seem to have came back in season but when I but her butt back in with the buck the started to beat the h*** out of his butt so I had to take her back out. So if you have a doe that acts like she is in season and starts to fight a buck more likely she is bred.

I wished I could be of more help but that is all I have to go on at this time.

Good Luck.

[PygmyLover]

Now my Destiny is looking like she is in heat.............I willl hope that both of us have the same outcome with it being false heats during a pregnancy.

On the flipside my 7 month old pygmy doeling is not going into heat and it is 30 days past the time she last was in heat. I never put her in with the buck but their pen did share a fence so......................