Boer Buck Worthwhile?

[dezeeuwgoats]

I recently downsized by selling my nigerian herd. Now I've got just my nubian herd of twelve animals, plus a boer buck that I brought back from Texas as a companion to my nubian buck, a year and a half ago. Achilles is a nice-looking boer, registerable, and I've had compliments on him from both a boer breeder and a nubian breeder.

My question is this: is it worthwhile to keep my boer buck to sire meat kids, or would I just be better off breeding straight nubian and taking the loss on the surplus nubian kids?

I can't use him on virgin does, and I have five sr does - three of whom are too valuable genetically to cross with the boer. Basically, I have two sr does to whom I can breed him this year. That will change eventually as I plan on keeping a milking string of ten to fifteen sr does. I don't want or need all those kids, although I want the milk, and am enjoying working on improving genetically.

I know there's a good market for percentages, as wethers and 4h kids. At our auction, the boers and percentages are the only thing that sell for any money. I hate the auction, though, so not really thinking of going there. Boers are what seem to sell here. I'm wondering if anyone keeps a boer buck just to sire meat kids because they have found it more worthwhile on does they don't need genetically? Anything I'm not thinking of in making this decision?

Niki

[copperpennykids]

Why can't you use him on virgin does? Lots of dairy breeders always use a Boer buck on their first fresheners so they can see their udders when they freshen. If they look good, they breed them to a dairy buck the following year. If they don't, they sell the doelings (and all along intended to sell the wethers). More $$ for their "unwanted" animals. Good plan.
Maybe you could breed the two available does to the Boer buck and then trade this buck to someone for a future buckling --out of this buck, or probably better yet, an unrelated buckling (if you ever plan to keep any Boer/Dairy crosses.
But 2 bucks for 5 does seems kind of pricey to me. Makes more sense when you actually have the larger numbers.

[dezeeuwgoats]

I have ten does - not five. Five jrs and five seniors. I've read some research about using a meat buck on virgin does, and it just isn't something I feel comfortable doing at this point. At some point in the (near) future - I will be milking 10-15, plus replacements. So the two does to breed him to would be his only job THIS year - not in the future IF I keep him.

I'd like to know what other folks have decided works for them and why, just in case there are aspects to this I'm not taking into consideration.

Thanks;
Niki

[DocM]

The meat market is pretty strong here, not sure how it is where you live, but I will venture a guess that you probably have a good ethnic population who would snap up your meat kids fast. Xbred meat kids, especially nubian/boer cross, grow bigger faster than straight boer kids, especially if they're dam raised. Also, there's a good market among meat growers for nubian/boer cross does - they make great meat dams. You wouldn't have any problem making money on the kids around here.

[susanne]

if you want to work on improving the does you have i would concentrate on only one breed. there is also a study on milk cows that reports better milk output in the long run if you use a buck from good milking line. not very popular but unwanted bucks are getting destroyed at birth. that will lesson the work load and more milk for sale.

[dezeeuwgoats]

DocM - that's what I'm thinking, and wondering about.......when you say market, could you give me an idea on prices in your area? I realize that varies from area to area, but I'm pretty clueless about boers. I need a ballpark figure to try and decide if it's worth a shot.

Susanne - I've read that research too - but only the stats on first fresheners - not on older does as far as milk supply. I just haven't read enough about the topic to feel knowledgeable. I haven't found all that many articles. My goats are from national top ten lines in milk and also show - so I don't know that I'm really 'improving' them any, but I do enjoy playing breeder by selecting the best ones to keep and go forward with. I've got a couple of does that I do want to keep milking, but they just don't fit into my breeding program for whatever reason. One doe keeps skipping and had trouble getting pregnant and I don't want to mess with that, in case it is genetic. The other is perfect in every way (tears), but has one weak pastern in the back that takes a generation to breed out. They are aged 5 and 4 next year. So I have a few years of breeding, getting milk, and kids. Our first milking does, so I don't think the family will allow me to cull them - ie, sell them as family milkers. You are right - the most efficient solution would be to kill at birth, but I just don't think that's an option for me. Oh, and I'm not planning on keeping everything - but with a milking herd of 10-15, maybe I'd only breed my best does to the nubian buck.

There aren't any easy answers to this, I know. Just thought I'd see what solutions others had come up with in their own situations. I know one dairy up in Washington that breeds EVERYTHING to a boer, unless she has a need for replacements, then she uses her nubian buck. She puts ALL the kids in the freezer at one time. Very efficient, but I'm not there yet. That's one way to keep the numbers down!

If I just decided to put all excess kids in the freezer (not sell them)- does anyone feel that the difference in vigor/size/weight gain on the half-bred kids would justify keeping that buck around? I'm really just trying to make a semi-responsible financial decision.

Niki

[TexCountryWoman]

I kept a Boer buck around for pretty much the same reason. I would breed him to dairy and percentage Boer does that I wanted meat kids from (for our own use and a few to sell). it worked out well while he was a youngster. Then he became very large and strong. he tore up any pen we put him in, even chain link. After a while, he was more of a liability than an asset to our farm plan. We no longer have him and are quite relieved. His kids were very meaty (and tasty) but he damaged alot of property around here for breeding not that many does. He was also a danger. If we had had a large, large number of does to breed him too, it would have been worth the trouble. we will now only use Boer bucklings and then sell them before they mature into Boer bucks. Large Boer bucks are very different than dairy bucks.

[copperpennykids]

I agree with Diane regarding the size on a Boer buck. We have a very nice Boer herd - about 45 does - that shows very well and hence have a strong demand for breeding stock and show wethers at good prices. BUT we also have spent some serious $$ for feincing for the bucks. They are not aggressive, but they will press and press and press on regular gates, until they are destroyed, or will ram cattle panels (especially if another buck on the other side until they are bent and broken.

Which is why I suggested you use this buck and then trade him for a future buckling to someone who has stock that you like. The buckling will be small enough to breed first fresheners (not too heavy) and straw bales work for any creative breeding you need to do with your tall does. And they are easily penned. Just figure on trading him out every 2 years before he gets too big for your purposes. (My 18 month old bucks are in the special pens, so you may have to trade out every year. You really don't want them breeding your does indiscriminately when they get out....and they will).

Around here (and we don't have the ethnic population you have) an 8 week old 50% boer cross wether can go for $50-75. Same age dairy wether goes for $25-35. It is probably similar where you are. You may have to wait until the kids are 12-14 weeks before selling them, so plan on having some feed cost into them, but the majority of their feed will be milk, which you will have a plentiful supply.

I really think that Diane's plan is a good one for your setup too....

[dezeeuwgoats]

He's in a six foot tall, chain link enclosure. I'm curious if a six or eight strand electric fence would hold him once he's an adult? If I wanted to pasture him.

I am really not interested in trading bucks every couple of years, due to the fact that the more closed my herd is, the safer I am disease-wise.

Of course, if it made sense financially to keep him, then I should probably just invest in the fencing.....or test a new buck every two years.....I wouldn't want to keep anything dangerous. I know all intact male animals are 'dangerous', but you know what I mean. You are always watchful, but some are just mean and nasty temperament-wise and shouldn't be reproducing. My nubian buck the same age as Achilles was much larger than him. His photo is in the 'Feeding Dairy Bucks' thread. He was just an enormous buck, though.

Niki

[DocM]

Originally Posted by dezeeuwgoats

DocM - that's what I'm thinking, and wondering about.......when you say market, could you give me an idea on prices in your area? I realize that varies from area to area, but I'm pretty clueless about boers. I need a ballpark figure to try and decide if it's worth a shot.

Running about $1.50 a lb for goat (on the hoof). Most people want 3-6 month old goats, but you can butcher them later. Realistic market weight - the weight at which we usually sell them, is around 100 lbs. The crosses will reach that weight an average of one month sooner than the pb boers.

[DocM]

I keep four bucks. They're all gentle and easy to handle. Maybe a little "too" friendly with their sniffing and licking.. but they don't jump fences and they haven't yet tried to destroy anything. I keep them together and fights are rare, and mostly play.

[dezeeuwgoats]

You know - I really wish I could have disbudded Achilles! The horns are scary. But it is pretty funny to see him prop up a hoof on the chain link, in order to scratch his armpit with the tip of a horn.

Thanks everyone for your input! I really do appreciate it.


Niki