Buckling in trouble

Croenan · #1 11/26/06, 05:30 PM

A friend has a buckling that appears to have urinary calculi. (I lost a wether to a long struggle with UC) (i just found out she was feeding him alfalfa and grain..

....)

Anyway...the weird thing is that he is eating and drinking and still nursing (he's only 2 months) but we cannot find any sign that he has peed in the last 3-4 days! His penis is dry. Ok....so even though I am pretty sure its UC, is there anything else that could mimic the signs....straining while trying to pee or poo? He is not flagging his tail or grinding his teeth and he isn't having bad episodes of hard pushing. Could he be constipated? (he's kind of young to have UC and still nursing...he's not wethered)

We are treating with ammonium choride and hoping for the best, but I just wanted to see if anyone else had any other ideas. (oh...and how much AC can we give him? He is about 10 pounds.)

Corrie Ann

fishhead · #2 11/26/06, 05:43 PM

I've been told that alfalfa and grain give a 2:1 calcium phophorus ratio and that prevents UC.

Did you say he IS straining?

I always tried to watch when my goats first stood up because they usually urinated or pooped then. They didn't pass much urine even though they were 50 pounds.

PygmyLover · #3 11/26/06, 05:57 PM

Kids can be born with stones so he isn't to young to have UC.

Think of UC like type 2 diabeties; Some of it is inherited other times it is diet or medicaiton induced.

To me UC can be caused by the wrong phosperous and calcium balance while others are just genetically more prone to get it.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #4 11/26/06, 07:01 PM

I would kind of doubt it's UC. How many of us on this board could honestly say they have seen any of their 2 month old bucks pee today? Well if we had 2 month old bucks

I have seen my 3 older bucks pee today, I hang around at least once a day to make sure their streams are really steady. I don't even bother looking at bucklings! Straining can also be a sign of entero, worms, not enough water and he is constipated. My bucklings rarely eat alfalfa pellets, although it is offered to them, they do love grain of course

so I always put ammonium chloride in the grain or use products that contain it. 1 teaspoon per head per day no matter what the age or size, and 1 tablespoon as often as you can do it when you are trying to dissolve stones. You can usually feel sandy grit at the prepuce, and from what you have said it does not sound like UC.

It's actually a joke amongst older breeders when new folks who buy kids from us ask the question: How many times a day should my kid poop? The problem with this question is alot like you not seeing your buckling pee. Unless he is being raised on a clean dry floor, and you can count puddles, nobody sees all the times a day a kid pees. Vicki

Croenan · #5 11/26/06, 07:41 PM

Well, I just came from her house again and he still isn't doing well. His belly looked bloated but he's not screaming in pain. He is straining but not hard. He runs away from us normally but she said he didn't eat/drink much today. He is shaking a little and doesn't look happy. I felt his belly and he is as dry as can be....I even picked off something that was very dry and stuck to his penis.

What can you do about constipation? Whats the entero? I am sure he hasn't has any vaccinations. He probably hasn't been wormed either. Money is very tight for her. What would you recommend that I do for her. A vet visit is a last resort due to money. I have alot of meds around here for my goats but I just don't know what's going on with this little guy.

PygmyLover · #6 11/26/06, 07:45 PM

Did you give him Ammonium Cloride yet? I think you need to drench him with it a few times a day. I think it is tablespoons.

another thing is to give him apple cider vinegar. Keep drenching him with it.

use a syringe (minus the needle) to drench him with it.

Croenan · #7 11/26/06, 07:56 PM

Yeah...we've been giving him about a teaspoon mixed in about 4 T of water...then we give him about half of that. He is only about 10 pounds.

PygmyLover · #8 11/26/06, 08:14 PM

I believe he needs more then that to break up the stones.

trob1 · #9 11/26/06, 08:21 PM

For constipation you can use an infant inema or if you can use soapy water in a syringe with needle off of course.

susanne · #10 11/27/06, 07:04 AM

i would put this little guy on cocci treatment as soon as possible. worm him with valbazen 1cc per ten pound. give him vit-b complex to curb his appetite.
the big belli tells me he has an overload of parasites. if he did not pee for four days as you say he would probably be dead by now. put a diaper around his belly if there is not enough time to observe him.

what is his temperature?

trob1 · #11 11/27/06, 07:11 AM

I agree the hunching up could be from cocci and not the inability to urinate. Instead of a diaper you could take a peice of cloth and tie it around the belly (not too tight) and if he urinates you will see the wetness and if it is white cloth even better you will see the urine ring.

Sher · #12 11/27/06, 07:59 AM

Did you by any chance band this kid? If so..I would check and see if that's on correctly. A slipped band or one in the wrong place could give the same symptoms I think.

Croenan · #13 11/27/06, 05:07 PM

FYI/update....a trip to the vet said that he has "ulcers". I don't really know what they mean by that. They gave him something to coat his stomach and we just wormed him. Any thoughts?

Goat Freak · #14 11/27/06, 06:52 PM

Ulcers are caused when the lining of the stomach becomes too thin and the acid in the stomach cauzes a sore, right? Not sure, I'm in Biology I this year, and I had to read something about ulcers, but can't remember much.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #15 11/27/06, 08:50 PM

And how would a goat get ulcers? And how would a vet looking at the outside of a goat see ulcers? And how much did you pay for this?

Once again I must have missed the Xray glasses given out when I got my goats

Perhaps they are given out at vet school?

I would stick with the guesses you got on the forum! vicki

SherrieC · #16 11/28/06, 06:27 AM

ULCERS!!! Lol! Is he worried about something? well ulcers cause stomach pain, so I guess the vet thinks stomach pain. Cocidiosis might cause stomach pain. so I second the Worm him if he's 10 lbs maybe a little more then 1 cc valbazen, and some type of cocistat, what do you have? If he hasn't had his shots, he could go into Entro.

I always found the best treatment for Ulcers was ... goat milk.

fishhead · #17 11/28/06, 06:46 AM

If his stomach hurts I would recommend making sure he can access baking soda, minerals and giving him probiotics. I would also take away the grain until he straightens out.

Sher · #18 11/28/06, 06:52 AM

oh my...I'm confused. Is he peeing yet? Is he pooping yet? I mean..if there was any question about those two things..which is how this thread started..I would definitely put him someplace where I could check and know for sure. If he's not..you have a place to start from.

I wish I could remember the names of the body parts..lol. I know I read..and I'm pretty sure it was on here...several years ago..that little boys "tubes" for lack of a better word..sometimes have a "kink" in them. So they sometimes have the symptoms of stones..but in reality their tube is kinked. Making it hard to urintate.

Vicki? Do you remember reading that on here? I know its been some time ago..and I KNOW you know what body part I'm trying to say..is it urethra?

Going to get more coffee now.

susanne · #19 11/28/06, 07:33 AM

how is this little guy this morning? i'm very interessted to learn what the treatment for ulcer in goats is. i have avery nice medicine book for goatsand could not find any info for it. must be a new disease in caprine species

dona you are remembering right. stomach ulceration in humans is from to much acid over a prolonged time.

goat milk is the best treatment for this.
i thought this little guy is still on milk?

moonspinner · #20 11/28/06, 08:14 AM

Ulcers in a two month old goat? That's a new one for me.