Good Idea or Bad

[steff bugielski]

I am thinking of adding alfallfa pellets to the grain ration of my pregnant does. They are to deliver in mid dec. They have been getting 12% grain about 1 cup a day now up to 1 lb a day. They have grass hay all day and a mineral block. Or would I be better to slowly change them over to the 18% caprine challenger and add the pellets after delivery.
Also is there a wrong time to give selenium gel?
Steff

[moonspinner]

I think your idea to add alfalfa pellets is a great one. A 12% grain plus grass hay is a bit light to me and the pellets would add some richer nutrition for the growing kids. (and you don't need to give them a lot). I added pellets two years ago to my 14% feed and grass hay and it turned out great. I BoSe my does so can't comment on the selenium.

[Jillis]

I give the bose gel, it is comparable to the shot. I give it within a few weeks of the does giving birth.

[susanne]

i do feed the alfa pellets to my pregnant does because i strongly believe that they need the calcium in the alfa. in the ideal world you want to have selenium supplement for your goats in their daily diet so they don't need bose shots.

[PygmyLover]

I would do both. Change to a higher protein and add the alfafa pellets.

Anything you do should be gradual and slow to ensure that they don't get the runs or stomach achs or even refuse the grain.

[mygoat]

I just started to feed my does alfalfa pellets, they will now have free access to them from now on. They are still getting a couple slices of hay as well, as well as 1/2 cup grain (they're minis) a day. In December (month before I begin breeding) thier grain will increase to 1 cup. After breeding, thier feed goes back down to 1/2 cup each. Then after kidding they go up to 1 1/2 to 2 cups a day. My dairy doe is getting more than them, but will soon go down to 3/4 cup a day untill she kids (in april), then she will be eating a couple pounds of grain a day, plus all the alfalfa pellets she wants.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Adding alfalfa pellets is adding the perfect calcium form and also the perfect protein. Using protein from alfalfa so you don't have to use it from soy, cottonseed or fish meal is much healthier for your goats. Anything in grain with a protein over 12% has soy, cottonseed, or fishmeal in it to up it futher.

Add them slowly, you can founder them with the protein in them. One cup each the first through 4th days, then 2 cups for the next several days, then add a cup more for several more days. Move to a more natural diet, more alfalfa, and grain for the energy and calories they need the last 50 days of prenancy. Then when everyone has kidded feed them only enough grain to get the milk you need for yourself or their growing kids, while maintaining thier weight (the weight you want them to be at).

Promise, if you move them to a diet higher in roughage with alfalfa, and lower your dependance on grain, you will be back on here raving about how much better your does look, milk and how much healthier they come into milking even after having lots of kids.

Most of us have defficency in selenium on our properties and goats. You can not achieve correct blood levels dietarily without supplements. Minerals or grain mixes are low in slenium, USDA regulated and you would have to get a perscription to have a mineral made higher than that level. I would only use the gel if you don't have severe problems, and are running blood tests to see exactly how much you need to give. We know with Bo-se how much to use in goats. Vicki

[steff bugielski]

Vicki; you would suggest the bo=se to the straight gel. I usually have the vet come and give selenium shots but the cost as to high. I am running 27 adults and 13 just bred young ones. At $5 a shot I figured I can do it myself.
Steff

[susanne]

steff i did attend an AI class in october. one of the topics has ben mineral needs for goats. dr.lee-ann fosdick, one of the leader in goat reproducktion here in michigan told me that she uses the selenium and e crumble for horses on a daily basis for her goats.
i also believe that the overall health from our animals will benefit if we supplement mineral daily needs and not wait until there is a deficiency.
i do feed BOSS wich contains selenium, selenium yeast and vit e capsules twice a day from the pharmacy. end of the year i will have a blood analysis done to see if i supplement enough. you have to look for someone in your area that knows the status from se around you. best would be to look for a nutritionist.

[Wendy]

Vicki; you would suggest the bo=se to the straight gel. I usually have the vet come and give selenium shots but the cost as to high. I am running 27 adults and 13 just bred young ones. At $5 a shot I figured I can do it myself.

Why not buy the bottle of Bo-Se & give the shots yourself. No need to pay the vet to give the shots. That's what I do.

I also mix alfalfa pellets with my grain. I would also suggest getting loose minerals instead of a block. They have a hard time getting what they need from a block.

[dbarjacres]

I just have to comment on the selenium gel, I asked my feed dealer about that (he's very into nutrition) as I thought that'd be a lot easier than having to stick them with a needle. He told me you need to get the blood levels up and the only way to do that effectively is with injected selenium and then once you know it's okay, you can add it to a daily feed ration, but just giving them a feed thru once in a while like that does nothing.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

I know for us by using a horse grain and a cattle/horse mineral we are able to keep our selenium levels at low/normal range in our goats. The only way for us to bolster selenium levels in our does for more eggs ovulated, and healthier non problem kids in the smallest of our high multiples is to use Bo-se. A blood test before Bo-se is low/normal a blood test several days after the Bo-se is high..3 weeks later it is low/normal again, so it is used for specific reasons here. I know it is the reason we have more kids out of younger stock and have reproduction rates like we have, is because of this. We also did away with problem kids. Dealing with E, which selenium has very little of, was the key here, more than selenium...and of course the copper issue.

Once again like worming and running fecals before and after using a wormer, if you don't test you are guessing. And the info here at my farm means little to those of you up north, or east or west Vicki

[Jillis]

Originally Posted by susanne

steff i did attend an AI class in october. one of the topics has ben mineral needs for goats. dr.lee-ann fosdick, one of the leader in goat reproducktion here in michigan told me that she uses the selenium and e crumble for horses on a daily basis for her goats.
i also believe that the overall health from our animals will benefit if we supplement mineral daily needs and not wait until there is a deficiency.
i do feed BOSS wich contains selenium, selenium yeast and vit e capsules twice a day from the pharmacy. end of the year i will have a blood analysis done to see if i supplement enough. you have to look for someone in your area that knows the status from se around you. best would be to look for a nutritionist.

Susanne, what is selenium and e crumbles? Where would you get them?

[susanne]

jillis you will get it at your feed store. this is selenium vit e crumble for horses.
i don't know the brand but can look it up next week when i have to go to my feed store.