Sick doe--HELP

[MamaDee]

Hi, all.

We have a 7 month old doe who is sick. She had diarrhea yesterday (not bad, just not nice berries) and we assumed it was because she was hogging the pellets again and not eating enough hay. We have three does and she never eats enough hay like the others, but waits for the pellets. She has had diarrhea a couple of times for this reason and we limited her feed and she's been o.k.

Well.....today she is markedly worse. She won't eat, she looks bloated, she is arching her back and she kind of walks funny and seems a bit disoriented.

I am taking a stool sample to the vet tomorrow in case it's worms, but I am worried it's something worse. Her eyes seem the right color, but it's hard to get a good look at them.

The only weird thing about this doe is that she has never eaten enough hay....she waits for the pellets. Could that make her this sick? We don't feed her too much grain pellets, but if she doesn't eat any hay could it affect her this much. The other two goats are fine.

I am worried this time b/c she is refusing food. She has NEVER done that before.

Dee

[HappyFarmer]

Yes goats need hay-long fiber, grass, leaves, twigs, etc. Are you sure she's hasn't been eating it when your not looking? Offchance but is there something wrong with her mouth that would make hay and not your grain unpalletable for her?

How much grain are you giving her? What kind? Has she had any vaccinations? Wormed? When, what, & how much? Cocci medication?

If she's bloated give her a couple T baking soda. If you suspect too much grain give her mineral oil instead. Give her probios or cultured yogurt.

Any other symptoms? Temperature? Eyelid color? More info is needed to try to determination of what is wrong.
HF

[wardarden]

I'm still a rookie at this, but my doe did bloat last spring and it sounds like the same kindof symptoms. (The way you said she is walking) From what I have read make sure to get her a C D antitoxin shot so that enterotoxemia does not take over in her upset stomach. If she gets really bad diareah be careful that she does not get dehydrated.

Good luck,

Arden

[PygmyLover]

take some baking soda, add some water to make a pasty ball. Put this into her mouth (yes it will be messy) if it is bloat she will start to belch and relieve the gass build up. Massage her tommy to aid this.

YOu can repeat the baking soda as often as you feel it is nessary.

It is always a good idea to have some out free choice as well. That why the goats can get to it when they feel they need it. But that doesn't mean they will never get bloat.

I can't say for sure it is bloat but even for a stomach ach baking soda works (the kind you bake with).

[MamaDee]

Thanks, everyone....

O.k....let me see if I can give some more information to help. It is possible that she is eating more of the hay than I know....but she for sure doesn't eat it like the other two. She just doesn't seem to want it. And she isn't getting too much of the pellets. We looked up how much to give them and stick to that. You can just tell that she LOVES her pellets, though. She might get a bit more than the other two, but not much. I was worried that the percentage of her hay/pellets might be off if she didn't eat enough hay. But I didn't know whether or not that could make her so sick. The feed is specific for kids--can't remember the exact protein percentage. More than Sweet Feed and a bit less than Purina Kid Chow. I think it's around 17-18 percent.

They are on a natural worming thing from Hoegger's. An herbal tonic. Not a DEwormer, but a preventative type of thing. They have never had any shots. No cocci meds.

Her eyes looked pink, but DH pulled the skin down to look, he didn't look up under the lid--if that makes a difference. I don't know if she has a fever. How do you check that?

I read about enterotoxemia. Is that always from overfeeding? I don't think that is her issue--overfeeding I mean.

I am hoping it's worms so that meds will help her right away. She does have her back arched and her rear end sort of up and I read that worms can do that. Also her coat doesn't look as nice as the other two. Not bad like mange, just not as shiny and healthy as normal.

She turned away her beloved pellets tonight and she's never done that. And she turned away her water--which has me worried.

So...tomorrow before the vet opens I will give her baking soda and try to put a homemade electrolyte solution in a bottle and see if I can get some in her. A friend also recommended a vitimin B shot for her immune system.

When the vet opens I will take in a stool sample and see what he says. I hope someone is open the Saturday after Thanksgiving.

This is scary.

Dee

[PygmyLover]

is it possible she got to a poisonous plant?

You take her temp by inserting a digital thermometer into her rectum (put some protrolium jelly on it) - doesn't need to go far in!

A normal temp will be 101-104*F

[Bearfootfarm]

Enterotoxemia is caused by a bacteria called Clostridium Perfringins. It is called "over-eating disease" . They need to be vaccinated with CD&T which also covers Tetanus
http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/...=2&pf_id=16741

[HappyFarmer]

If she were mine I'd do the following:

CD/T vac

Coccidiosis treatment (orally)

Worm with a clear proven wormer for your area (cydectin if unsure) (orally)
Worm with a white wormer (safequard or Panacure, again for your area)

De-lice the herd (because of rough coat)

If diarrhea continues give pepto to prevent dehydration till you get to the cause of the diarrhea.

discontinue all grains until cause is determined & hay consumption is confirmed. (is she a new goat & not used to hay??)

Check hay for moldiness, course stems, & make sure she gets roughage- changing hay if needed. In short-get roughage in her. She needs it to digest food in her rumen. Check mouth to determine there are no problems.

Discontinue the natural wormers & stick to a worming schedule as needed. (My belief is regular/daily worming with natural wormers & medicated feeds builds up resistance to worms)

Offer loose minerals & baking soda (seperate) free choice

Follow up all oral meds with probios or cultured yogurt every time

Get a temp to determine if antibiotics are needed.

Keep giving the supportive electrolytes, b vitamins, nutridrench whathave you.

Consult with your vet if no improvement.
HF

ps I don't like using meds any more than I have to, either, so I'm with you on your program. Sometimes it just doesn't cut it though when something gets out of sinc.

[Jcran]

Get some CDtet ANTITOXIN into her; it works FAST... I read on the ONION CREEK website that it's something you can give right away. I think the regular shot doesn't work immediately. If she has got enterotoxemia, then she can die before tomorrow comes. I'd rather be safe than sorry. I also gave A LOT of yogurt and kefir in the past few weeks. It's good for tummies. If you have any kind of yogurt with live cultures in it (dont' they all?) that might help as well. GOOD LUCK!!!!!

[Sher]

I'd take her pellets away..at least for now. Put hay and water in front of her. If she is really bloated..I'd give her 8 to 10 ccs of olive oil orally. If she has diarhea and not so bloated..I would give her Pepto.

Her arching sounds like a belly ache. Maybe her teeth need looked at..maybe she isn't chewing her pellets..but swallowing them. Maybe she is eating too fast..put a couple of big stones in the pan to slow her down. Sounds like maybe she just does not have enough fiber to bulk her stools..

I went through this with my buck for about four months when he was young and I just got him. First it was poops..then bloat..back and forth. I did the above and Praise to God..he's never done it since.

If her color is good and you don't have a good reason to...I would not worm her.
Good luck.

[mygoat]

How much of the grain is she getting? She may have been getting more than her share if you feed them all in the same pan. I use dog collars and leashes attached to t-posts on the fence, and they all get thier own bowl and ration. Then when everybody is done, I let them each go and pick up the bowls.

Also, are you feeding hay at the same time as grain? Try feeding the hay a couple hours before feeding them thier grain, that way if they're hungry at all they'll eat the hay. Then when you feed thier grain they're fuller.

And yes, I'd say worm and vaccinate. Use a CD antitoxin now, then vaccinate them all in a couple weeks with a CD/T, then three weeks after that again with CD/T again, and they'll be good for a while,

[MamaDee]

O.K....well, the vet found no worms in the fecal sample. But....I don't know for sure how fresh the sample was. Hubby got it. To be sure, we dewormed her anyway. The vet said it wouldn't hurt.

I still wonder about the grain situation. If she isn't eating hay (and it's fine-no mold, etc.) and only eating grain, she could be getting too much grain even if she only eats her normal amount. Her belly does look distended, but this isn't new. I remember saying awhile ago that she used to be the skinniest, but now she is the fattest. But she was otherwise fine, so I didn't think a thing of it.
Can I give her olive oil for the bloat if she has soft stools? I don't want to make it worse.

I did get a 16 oz. bottle of homemade electrolyte water in her today, but she wouldn't take more. I stuck her nose in baking soda to force her to lick it off b/c she wouldn't eat it. I also tried to give her yogurt, but she wouldn't eat that either. And she still would not eat her grain again tonight. But she doesn't look worse. She looks about the same.

Should I really treat her for the other things it could be if her symptoms don't match up? I hate to treat her for everything it could be.

I'm still hoping it's the worms and she'll pass something tomorrow. If not, I suspect the food situation. And I don't know how to help that. How can I force her to eat hay if she doesn't want to? The hay is free choice and we feed them their grain once in the evening. I could tether them so they all get the same amount. I think they pretty much do anyway. But it's possible she is eating it too fast. But if she won't eat hay what can I do? The other two goats are always chewing a cud. I never see her doing that. I really don't think she eats the stuff. The other two do just fine.

We'll see what tomorrow brings. Thanks for all your help. At least she isn't worse.

Dee

[HappyFarmer]

The goat is now into her 3rd day (maybe more) of not eating or drinking. 16 oz of electrolyte is not enough to sustain her if she isn't drinking on her own.

The yogurt & baking soda will help her rumen, and if she isn't eating her grain, is unlikely to eat those, either, especially if she's never had them before. Force them onto the roof of her mouth so she has no choice but to swallow some. If she was bloated real bad I would imagine you would have lost her by now. In addition to releasing gas, baking soda neutralizes stomach.

No cud chewing is a very bad sign. I fear that if you don't actively work to solve this problem you will lose her. We don't know if her symptoms include a fever or not. That would require a totally different treatment regime. We don't know what it is because we havn't eliminated/treated the simple stuff. Have you tried another hay, alfalfa pellets or something?
To put it bluntly I think you are running out of time for the wiat & see about the worms, but this is just my opinion.

HF

[fishhead]

What is her temperature?

[moonspinner]

I'm not going to attempt a diagnosis but the best thing you can give goats is hay. Maybe her system is just overloaded on these pellets. A temperature on her would really help, especially if it's below normal. I too would take away the pellets. Sounds like if she has a bloated appearance she's not feeling well enough to eat. B complex is also on my first weapons list to kick start the rumen, and Probios. I just hope it's nothing worse like polio or listeriosis.

[goatkid]

Did your vet examime your goat as well as run the fecal? Does he/she know much about goats? To take a goat's temp, I use a digital thermometer rectally. The goat's temp should be between 101.5 and 104F. A sub normal temp can mean the goat is really ill. If you can steal some cud from one of your healthy goats, give it to her. It sounds to me as if her rumen isn't working. When your vet tested for worms, did he also test for coccidiosis? This can cause diarreah and is treated with oral sulfa drugs such as Albon. If she wasn't vaccinated for C&D, I'd give C&D antitoxin.

[PygmyLover]

if I am treating with baking soda I add water to the baking soda and form it into a ball and stick it to the roof of the goats mouth. THey have to swallow it that way.

Just so you know.

[cmharris6002]

How is your goat doing? Do you have another goat that you can take some cud from and drench her with it (mix with water).

Since you feel that the hay to grain ratio has not been right with her, I think your goat may have acidosis. I have read that acidosis can be quite and cronic. You can treat it with the baking soda and probios and/or cud from another goat.

Christy

[MamaDee]

Hi, everyone

Here's an update on our sick doe, Marigold. Today is day four, almost five.
Two days ago we dewormed her. I thought she was a bit better the next day, but we saw no evidence of passing worms or weird stools. And she started eating pellets a bit and the boys fed her dried leaves--which she ate alot of as long as you put it up to her mouth. Same with the grain. It's like she couldn't see quite right. But she seemed better. So we didn't do anything more drastic than continue baking soda, electrolyte water from bottle, yogurt, etc. She wasn't dehydrated and her eyes looked o.k. Didn't seem as bloated. And she's back to regular berries and I saw her pee twice.

Yesterday she seemed more out of it, though. It's very weird. She's still eating and drinking some. But I don't think she can see at all very well now. She walks around in a daze. She will come if you call or follow you, but acts totally clueless. I saw her "stargazing" a couple times. She leans against me or the fence. When she put her head through the fence to eat grain she pushed her neck against the wires so hard she was completely choking herself--but wouldn't stop. She started frothing from choking...DH went in and manhandled her backwards enough so she could eat without smashing herself against the fence. But he had to hold on hard.

After reading everyone's replies (thank you, thank you) I finally found something that makes sense and that's polio. It fits her symtoms and it makes sense. If she doesn't eat the hay then she is getting too much grain in comparison. It makes sense that it would happen now since it is cold out and what she normally would eat from outside she doesn't anymore.

So today I went to the vet and got Vitamin B1. I found a vet who knew a bit about goats and he agreed with my thinking. We gave Mary an IM injection of 20 cc of Vitamin B1 at 4:30. At 7:30 we went to give her another injection of 20 cc. We were hoping for some improvement, but saw none.

If this is polio, how soon might we expect to see improvement? She's still walking around, eating, drinking, etc. But she is just really in la la land.
Does this sound like polio to you guys? Any other thoughts? Would she have a fever with polio?

Nothing else I've read about sounds right. But what do I know? I'm so grateful for you guys--I can't even find polio in my Storey or Barrons goat books.

I am praying she'll be better in the morning. If not I'm back to square one and have no clue.

Dee

[AllWolf]

Originally Posted by MamaDee

Hi, everyone

Here's an update on our sick doe, Marigold. Today is day four, almost five.
Two days ago we dewormed her. I thought she was a bit better the next day, but we saw no evidence of passing worms or weird stools. And she started eating pellets a bit and the boys fed her dried leaves--which she ate alot of as long as you put it up to her mouth. Same with the grain. It's like she couldn't see quite right. But she seemed better. So we didn't do anything more drastic than continue baking soda, electrolyte water from bottle, yogurt, etc. She wasn't dehydrated and her eyes looked o.k. Didn't seem as bloated. And she's back to regular berries and I saw her pee twice.

Yesterday she seemed more out of it, though. It's very weird. She's still eating and drinking some. But I don't think she can see at all very well now. She walks around in a daze. She will come if you call or follow you, but acts totally clueless. I saw her "stargazing" a couple times. She leans against me or the fence. When she put her head through the fence to eat grain she pushed her neck against the wires so hard she was completely choking herself--but wouldn't stop. She started frothing from choking...DH went in and manhandled her backwards enough so she could eat without smashing herself against the fence. But he had to hold on hard.

After reading everyone's replies (thank you, thank you) I finally found something that makes sense and that's polio. It fits her symtoms and it makes sense. If she doesn't eat the hay then she is getting too much grain in comparison. It makes sense that it would happen now since it is cold out and what she normally would eat from outside she doesn't anymore.

So today I went to the vet and got Vitamin B1. I found a vet who knew a bit about goats and he agreed with my thinking. We gave Mary an IM injection of 20 cc of Vitamin B1 at 4:30. At 7:30 we went to give her another injection of 20 cc. We were hoping for some improvement, but saw none.

If this is polio, how soon might we expect to see improvement? She's still walking around, eating, drinking, etc. But she is just really in la la land.
Does this sound like polio to you guys? Any other thoughts? Would she have a fever with polio?

Nothing else I've read about sounds right. But what do I know? I'm so grateful for you guys--I can't even find polio in my Storey or Barrons goat books.

I am praying she'll be better in the morning. If not I'm back to square one and have no clue.

Dee

I'm sorry to hear your little goat is sick. I hope how soon she gets better and will be praying for you. I wanted to say that first off.

The things you have said sounds just like goat polio and if you caught it soon enough and started treatment you should starting seeing signs of improvement in as little as two hours, if the disease is caught early enough. Here are the signs of goat polio: Symptoms - Excitability, "stargazing", uncoordinated staggering and/or weaving, drunkenness, circling, diarrhea, muscle tremor, head against wall, and apparent blindness. As it progresses, convulsions and high fever may occur, and if untreated, the animal generally dies within 24-72 hours.

If you want to read more on it here is the link: GOATWORLD That place I just gave you is great on telling about this problem. It has helped me alot alone with other things with my goats.