doeling with scours, coccidia?

[waygr00vy]

I noticed one of my 3 month old pygmy doelings not eating the other day and acting very lethargic. When I got her out of the pen, I noticed she had runny poop. I lost a kid to coccidia a couple months ago, so assuming thats what it was I started her on Di-methox as well as a dose of ivomec and brought her inside since it has been unusually cold. (she has been on a medicated feed and also had a 5 day course of di-methox as a preventative about 3-4 weeks ago). I also gave her some nutridrench. She seemed to improve some, pastey stool the next day and eating hay. Then it went back to being more runny again. I have continued the di-methox and I do see a somewhat firmer stool every now again,but it goes back to runny. She is eating. I have been giving her hay and fresh leaves. Gave her a tiny bit of grain last night and she wanted more. Since stool is still loose, I wormed her with Valbazen this morning and gave her some pepto a couple of hours ago. I hate giving her too much, but I don't see much of an improvement although the appetite is better. She is not really getting worse though either. I don't know what else to try, and it being Thanksgiving I am not going to be able to get a stool sample to the vet for a while, and can't get a hold of other meds besides what i have now. Any suggestions? Oh, i also gave her some probios. The other kid i lost before i had been treating with sulmet and he didn't respond to it, since then i have been using di-methox, but should I try sulmet on her? Any suggestions would be appreciated!

[fishhead]

I thought grain would increase the runs.

[DocM]

If you have treated the cause, it's time to treat the symptoms. Dose her with pepto bismal 2X a day for 2 days. Take her off everything but bulky hay, grass hay is best. Let her gut settle before giving her any more strong medications. No grain. No more wormer. Give it a day or two to work - no medications work instantly.

[HappyFarmer]

What strength Di-methox & what dosage? Does she have a fever?
Added: Are her eyelids pink?
Just noticed your location. Is Ivermec still working where you are? I know a couple breeders from FL who had to switch to Cydectin.

HF

[Terre d'Esprit]

Be careful with di-methox-- it's hard on their kidneys.

Good luck!

T

P.S. Did you do a fecal?

[DocM]

too much di-methox and then you have thiamine deficiency too.. vicious cycle.

[PygmyLover]

Originally Posted by DocM

If you have treated the cause, it's time to treat the symptoms. Dose her with pepto bismal 2X a day for 2 days. Take her off everything but bulky hay, grass hay is best. Let her gut settle before giving her any more strong medications. No grain. No more wormer. Give it a day or two to work - no medications work instantly.

I agree. You have put so much into that digestive track and have stripped EVERYTHING out of it even the good stuff so she needs time to "regulate" herself.

I would give it a few days to a week to see how she does with no meds or wormer (unless she gets worse of course).

What color is her poop? is she eating fine otherwise?

[waygr00vy]

I did not do a fecal on her, but had a fecal done on the kid I lost and it was coccidia and he had some hook worms. Same symptoms. I think I do need to switch to cydectin, the last couple of times I have used ivomec (which is what the vet recommended as well) it didn't seem to do a whole lot. The vets around here drive me crazy though. Last time I went (and the only time)to the same vet hospital and 3 different vets had 3 totally different opinions on what meds to give and how long to give them...The di-methox is the 12.5% oral solution...I gave her 1 ml per 5 lbs the first day and 1 ml per 10 lbs 4 days after that (today being the last day). I only gave her a tiny amount of grain...more to see if her appetite picked up than anything else...not even a handful...i will stick to hay and try the pepto 2 X a day. She had a temp of 103.5 the day i noticed her not acting right and brought her in. I will try and take her temp again in the morning. Atleast she doesn't seem to be getting any worse and does have an appetite. Her eyelids are pink. I have never had a problem with this until this summer, and we have been in extreme drought conditions. I thought coccidia was more of a problem in warm, wet conditions? Its very frusterating!

[waygr00vy]

Her poop is a dark brown, she has been eating and drinking fine the last couple of days.

[PygmyLover]

if her eyelids are pink and her poop is brown. She just needs time now.

[AllWolf]

Be careful not to over dose a goat on meds because you can run into other troubles.

Good Luck on your goat.

[HappyFarmer]

If she were mine I'd give her some more probios (you only gave it once?) or a couple T of cultured yogurt. Pepto is good for the runs & prevent dehydration-but not too much.

12.5% Dimethox is usually for prevention, 40% is for treatment generally.
IF she's been in a clean, dry environment all along, I'm not convinced it's coccidia. You are correct that cocci needs a wet environment to multiply. (It is better to let an area air dry instead of hosing it out). We don't do preventative here because we are basically dry & havn't had even one case of cocci. We keep 40% on hand just in case.

As was stated she could be just out of sinc with all the medication of late. Keep her diet simple - hay & water. She's eating & drinking so that's a good sign. Unless she's running a fever I'd just keep an eye out for any new symptoms. If you can take her temp as it is always important to know. Get the probios in her tonight, and nutridrench if you have it.
HF

[PygmyLover]

Originally Posted by HappyFarmer

If she were mine I'd give her some more probios (you only gave it once?) or a couple T of cultured yogurt.

you are so right on the ball with that.

[waygr00vy]

Well the pepto is definitely helping firm up her poops...they are starting to look almost normal. Temp is normal, still drinking and has an appetite. I also gave her more probios and nutridrench and will continue to due so. I definitely agree over treating is not good, i just worry because the last(and only) kid i lost had the same symptoms, i treated him then wanted to give his system time to level out...that is when he went downhill very fast and i lost him 5 min after getting to the vet. Vet did a fecal and confirmed coccidia...it just wasn't responding to the sulmet i was using then. That is why i switched to di-methox. I think this doeling will be ok though, i am going to keep a close eye on her but she seems to be heading in the right direction.

I used the di-methox 12.5% solution per the fiasco farm website. Should I get the 40% in case i need it in the future? I go to their site often as they seem to have alot of advice that usually works...

[Cara]

Have you checked her pen for a plant she might be eating that doesn't agree? I lost my best and first doe last spring to plant poisoning, as well as her large, beautiful daughter. Might check it out!

[PygmyLover]

I have never heard of Sulmet not working, sorry that happend to you. how sad.

Were you using this method

Drenching the liquid Sulmet (the kind labled for cows, pigs and chickens)

day1
1cc per 5lbs
day 2-5
1cc per 10lbs

This has worked for many people that I know and thought I would pass it along.

[HappyFarmer]

Glad to hear she is still doing well. Even happier to hear she has no fever. You could mathematically figure out how much 12.5% will equal 40% & keep it in your notes for future reference. It's cheap insurance vs. cocci issues. I wouldn't buy both myself, but that is me. Probios should be given after any harsh medicine is given.

The fiasco farm seems to be a good site for info. I've read a few of the articles and thought they were good, down to earth info. Different farms have different methods that work for each. Another good reference is Onion Creek Ranch in TX, Merck's Veterinary Manual Online, or a good reference book such as Goat Medicine. Kinda pricey but good to check against recommendations/advise/confirmation of a problem.

Keep an eye on her to make sure she is out of the woods. Post any changes for the worst (or the better!).

In reference to Cara's post, activated charcoal would help if a goat gets into something poisonous (it can happen to the best of us!). That is not something I would want to be scampering for when I need it.

Have a great Thanksgiving!
HF

[waygr00vy]

Yep, that is exactly the dosage i gave with the sulmet. And it has always worked in the past...the weird thing is it has been so dry all summer and this is the first year I have ever had a problem with it. Even the year we were super wet with all the hurricanes I didn't have a problem at all. Plus I have been raking out their pens even more often than usual. I thought at first maybe it was the chickens, since we built a new coop adjoining one of the goat pens. But I have read several places that coccidia chickens get is not the same as what goats get and it can't be spread from one to the other....Is that correct? That is really the only thing that is different...

No weird plants in their pen...

[PygmyLover]

I have always heard that, then someone was saying their vet told them differently. I really have no clue. My chickens have always been penned near my goats and I only had one bought with cocci and that was from a goat that I brought into my herd.

[HappyFarmer]

http://cecalaveras.ucdavis.edu/coccidio.htm