sheep wormer????

canadianmandy · #1 11/07/06, 04:14 PM

I need to worm my goats and my sheep and I was told that Sheep Ivomec drench would be ok for the goats ...Will it work? is it to strong? I have a pregnant momma and two young goats. (saanan alpine). Thanks in advance
Mandy!

DocM · #2 11/07/06, 05:45 PM

No, it will not work. Sheep wormer is way too low dosage for goats. Get regular cattle injectable for your goats, give it orally at a rate of 1 cc per 50 lbs of body weight. Sheep drench is .08% by volume, and cattle ivomec is 1.0% - you'd have to give your goats 10 times the amount you gave a similar sized sheep. Don't use horse paste wormers, they're even lower dosage. In the same vein, do NOT give sheep the injectable (orally) cattle concentration, it can kill them. Too many people advise owners that sheep and goat meds are interchangable, but they are way different animals.

canadianmandy · #3 11/07/06, 05:46 PM

Thank you so much DocM!!!!!! you saved me a bunch of heartache

DocM · #4 11/07/06, 06:12 PM

I use a syringe to pull the ivomec into the syringe, then I unscrew the needle - just shoot into their mouth - and expect them NOT to like it - from the faces my goats make, I assume it tastes like sh*t.

Bearfootfarm · #5 11/07/06, 09:50 PM

"do NOT give sheep the injectable (orally) cattle concentration, it can kill them"

Everything thing Ive EVER read about this says youre wrong. Got a source for this info? If so Id love to see it

Goatsandsheep · #6 11/08/06, 09:45 AM

We always worm are sheep and goats the same. I've used horse wormer, sheep wormer and cattle wormer on all of them, never had any problems. I do get a fecal done every spring and follow my vet advice on wormer at that time. I think twenty dollars is a cheap price when you think of all the problem worms can cause.

DocM · #7 11/08/06, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm

"do NOT give sheep the injectable (orally) cattle concentration, it can kill them"

Everything thing Ive EVER read about this says youre wrong. Got a source for this info? If so Id love to see it

Yes, my medical degree. Hey, it's no skin off my nose if you choose to use a 1% solution of ivomec on your sheep. And kill them. (shrugs)

As for using horse wormer and sheep drench on your goats and it being "okay" as per fecals - I would bet if you did a fecal prior to worming with such low dosage products, your animals didn't require worming at all.

Goatsandsheep · #8 11/08/06, 10:32 AM

My fecal are done before worming

Earthbound · #9 11/08/06, 10:49 AM

Ok, could someone give me the step by step on giving oral ivomec? It's not something I've ever done and am a bit nervous of change..lol! Any research i've done though points to it as being the way to go, sooooo.......
Also am i ordering it on line, from the vet, feed store? What percentage Ivomec?
thanks in advance!
corry

DocM · #10 11/08/06, 11:15 AM

For goats: buy the Ivomec Plus for cattle, 1% solution. Use a syringe to draw the amount into the plunger at a rate of 1 CC per 50 lbs of body weight. Remove needle. Squirt into mouth.

The added benefit of ivomec is that it also kills external parasites - and when your animals are cooped up in barns, with long hair, lice can be a real problem. Many animals that test negative for fecal are actually losing thrift to lice.

There is no recommended withdrawel time for milk, but I usually wait 72 hours before drinking. Use it safely on bred does.

For sheep, use Ivomec .08% drench, orally, as per package instructions, using a large plunger. It is NOT the same solution as the cattle wormer, and contains preventatives for parasites that are local to SHEEP. Also, a high concentration of ivomec can and will probably cause fertility problems in ewe sheep, and can possibly cause pregnant ewes to abort. Do not dose sheep with ivomec cattle wormer at the goat dosage, and conversely, do not use sheep drench on goats, it is not strong enough to be effective.

I have found ordering from valley or jeffers to be about 50% the cost of buying from my local feedstore or vet. Have a fecal done before you worm, or buy a cheap microscope and learn to make your own slides. Be careful if you animals have severe parasitic infections - the toxins released in the kill off of large amounts of worms can kill an animal with a diminished immune system.

Ivomec does not kill tape worms. SAFEGAURD, VALBAZEN, & SYNANTHIC are white wormers used commonly in goats to kill tape worms (used at 3x the cattle dosage for 3 days in a row). Valbazen should not be given to bred animals.

Bearfootfarm · #11 11/08/06, 11:59 AM

Saying "my medical degree" is NOT a source. This is a source:

www.durvet.com/DS/383_DS.pdf

"It is NOT the same solution as the cattle wormer, and contains preventatives for parasites that are local to SHEEP"

While it may not be "the same solution", it IS the exact same active ingredient, and if it had any other "preventatives" they would be listed also.

If youre really a Dr you should know the concentration of the drug means nothing without a dosage. The sheep drench is merely diluted 1% Ivomec. If you have a REAL source that documents sheep deaths from using 1% Ivomec please show it. Otherwise all youve shown so far is your opinion

"As for using horse wormer and sheep drench on your goats and it being "okay" as per fecals - I would bet if you did a fecal prior to worming with such low dosage products, your animals didn't require worming at all."

Actually the horse wormer is 1.87% so its higher than the one YOU recommended. Your statements tend to show you havent done enough research on the subject.

http://www.horse.com/products/sku-BBL07.html << This is "a source" If you have any feel free to show them

DocM · #12 11/08/06, 12:30 PM

Okay, Einstein.. apparently this is your little kingdom and the your perception of being RIGHT apparently overrules your desire to help anyone in this forum. Like I said, kill your animals, it's no skin off my nose. And BTW, yes, I'm a doctor. And you're what... someone with way too much time to kill? Good lord, it's just a message board - nobody has to take my advice. I'm not advocating anything that is potentially dangerous to livestock. Don't expect me to pay attention to any more of your ridiculous rants - I don't debate.

PygmyLover · #13 11/08/06, 12:54 PM

DocM as someone new to the board you shouldn't be arguing with someone with experience with goats. Hey you maybe right but your attitude makes me, the one learning, not willing to listen.

And taking care of animals and helping other people is not waisting time! She takes the time to help others here.......that should be commended.

Also she is right stating "my medical degree" means nothing if you don't back it up with some research or other things to uphold your statements. If you don't they are just plan oppions.

You say it is not skin off your nose, if you really cared about the animals you would try to make you point by answering the question "do you have any sources to back that statment up"

Just my 2cents worth.

DocM · #14 11/08/06, 01:16 PM

Everyone is new to a message board at some point. I've been raising goats for several decades now. Just because I'm "new" doesn't mean I have to respect every idiot (take that any way you'd like) who disagrees with me. Providing a website to back up your "theory" doesn't mean anything. Anybody with a keyboard can design a website - it doesn't mean the information contained is going to be correct. Check with your vet, or any of another dozen goat message board (I'm probably on them) and see what notable, long-time breeders say about using "sheep drench" to worm goats.

Every single message board has a few people who truly believe that is their given right to correct each and every thread. Personally, I don't care how long you've been on a particular message board, if you're giving bad advice. Go google your own information, that isn't my job. My "opinion" is just as valid as any website - considering that you can't verify the validity of either.

"ooooh, look at me! I've had 46487404848 postings here! You're new! You need to respect me!"

Please, I'm not new to the internet. Every message board has too many kings, and not enough thrones. Don't like my advice? Don't take it.

All you need to do is read the label on your wormer of choice, do a little algebra, and figure it out for yourself. If you look at my postings to date, I do believe all my information and advice has been valid and even, egads, respected.

Respect? My animals (sheep and goats) won several championships. I don't need the respect of strangers on a message board - that's now why I'm here. I already have the respect of my fellow breeders.

DocM · #15 11/08/06, 01:21 PM

BTW, the original question was "I was told that Sheep Ivomec drench would be ok for the goats ...Will it work?" to which I answered "No, the sheep drench is not high enough concentration to worm goats". Why advise this person to use sheep drench when they'd have to give 10 TIMES the amount they'd give their sheep?? And why advise them to use highly concentrated cattle wormer on sheep when the dosages would be so tiny it would be hard to administer? Does logic apply to this forum at all?

Bearfootfarm · #16 11/08/06, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earthbound

Ok, could someone give me the step by step on giving oral ivomec? It's not something I've ever done and am a bit nervous of change..lol! Any research i've done though points to it as being the way to go, sooooo.......
Also am i ordering it on line, from the vet, feed store? What percentage Ivomec?
thanks in advance!
corry

http://www.goatworld.com/health/meds/dosages.shtml

This will explain it quite well

Earthbound · #17 11/08/06, 02:04 PM

Thank you both for the information!
corry

Bearfootfarm · #18 11/08/06, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocM

Okay, Einstein.. apparently this is your little kingdom and the your perception of being RIGHT apparently overrules your desire to help anyone in this forum. Like I said, kill your animals, it's no skin off my nose. And BTW, yes, I'm a doctor. And you're what... someone with way too much time to kill? Good lord, it's just a message board - nobody has to take my advice. I'm not advocating anything that is potentially dangerous to livestock. Don't expect me to pay attention to any more of your ridiculous rants - I don't debate.

LOL All I did was ask for your source. Its you who's doing the name calling and avoiding a straight answer. I can see you dont debate, like you also dont try to back up anything you claim. If you really want to help, try giving advice that is factual. Ive been able to show proof of everything Ive said so far. If you can PROVE its wrong PLEASE do so , so the thousands of people who have been using Ivomec 1% for all these years will know those sheep are dead.

goatmarm · #19 11/08/06, 02:30 PM

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hoggfan · #20 11/08/06, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocM

BTW, the original question was "I was told that Sheep Ivomec drench would be ok for the goats ...Will it work?" to which I answered "No, the sheep drench is not high enough concentration to worm goats". Why advise this person to use sheep drench when they'd have to give 10 TIMES the amount they'd give their sheep?? And why advise them to use highly concentrated cattle wormer on sheep when the dosages would be so tiny it would be hard to administer? Does logic apply to this forum at all?

I've been using Levamisole pig wormer http://www.durvet.com/DS/385_DS.pdf?...FgnKgFDBD0Ffor my Dorper sheep because thats what a state agri research center stated. In your opinion is this a good sheep wormer? I've been mixing it as directed on the bottle and giving 1ml per 10 lbs of body weight oraly. I've also heard that Levamisole Hydrochloride can be easily overdosed. Thanks for any imput.