Putting weight on doe

MommaSasquatch · #1 09/20/06, 04:02 PM

Any suggestions for getting weight on my doe? She's got plenty to eat - free choice alfalfa pellets, a tiny bit of browse (and lots of grass) to which she has free access, and every morning about 3 lbs of oats/barley with a heaping half cup of BOSS. She's looking a little better after we switched her from hay to pellets. They seem to agree with her better. We've taken her down to milking once a day but I'm not ready to dry her off yet. She's not a huge producer but I'm happy with what we're getting, about 2 qts a day at almost 7 mos fresh. I know that doesn't sound like much to some of you.

Am I right in assuming she should have a little weight on her before breeding? I'd like to breed her in Oct. for March kids if possible (still gotta locate a buck). I can just see her ribs. I don't know much, but that doesn't seem right. I know she had an increase in worms at one point so over the past couple weeks I've been pretty aggressive with herbal wormer and her eyelids are looking better now than they were. Did a chemical too (morantel tartrate) and didn't notice much improvement so I went back to the herbs and gave her LOTS and am still giving some daily until I'm happy with where she's at. That has seemed to help quite a bit. I'm just going by the eyelids right now for worms 'cause I haven't got a microscope yet. That's on the list for the next few weeks.

Is there anything else I should do or be aware of to put some more flesh on her? Anything else I should feed her? Like I said, she's been improving with the changes I've made, but I'd like to make sure she's in good health before submitting her to the stress of pregnancy too. Thanks in advance for your advice. It's so valuable to have this forum as a resource with all its combined wisdom.

Patty0315 · #2 09/21/06, 06:34 AM

I do not have much faith in herbal wormers. There is no research out that makes me want to risk my goats life. If it were me I would either take a fecal in , if I thought the Vets office would do it right or just worm with a good wormer. I am not sure of your location so I do not know what type of wormer resistance you may have.

Patty

MommaSasquatch · #3 09/21/06, 09:03 AM

I'm seeing actual visible improvement in the color of her inner eyelids. They are definitely much darker than a week or so ago. Wouldn't that mean it's doing the job? Or is that not a good indicator on goats the way it is on sheep?

susanne · #4 09/21/06, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MommaSasquatch

I'm seeing actual visible improvement in the color of her inner eyelids. They are definitely much darker than a week or so ago. Wouldn't that mean it's doing the job? Or is that not a good indicator on goats the way it is on sheep?

she is still very thin right? i really would urge you to bring a fecal sample to your vet. you need to get weight on her before you start breeding her.
if a doe already shows anemia the worm burden is way ti high to get it under controll with herbal wormer.

Patty0315 · #5 09/21/06, 10:34 AM

Yes it may be working but will it get them to acceptable levels ? I would also use some Red Cell to build her blood back up.

Patty

MommaSasquatch · #6 09/21/06, 10:41 AM

She's currently about a 2 on here:

http://www.ansc.purdue.edu/meatgoat/...s/image002.jpg

Do you still think I need to be concerned? She was about a 3 before. I'd like to see her closer to a 1 which is why I'm continuing to give the wormer and will be rotating pasture again this week. I'm using the same wormer in very generous quantity with all my animals and it has brought everyone (sheep and goats) up about one point over the past ten days.

MommaSasquatch · #7 09/21/06, 10:43 AM

Thanks, Patty. I'm not familiar with Red Cell. What is it?

susanne · #8 09/21/06, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MommaSasquatch

She's currently about a 2 on here:

http://www.ansc.purdue.edu/meatgoat/...s/image002.jpg

Do you still think I need to be concerned? She was about a 3 before. I'd like to see her closer to a 1 which is why I'm continuing to give the wormer and will be rotating pasture again this week. I'm using the same wormer in very generous quantity with all my animals and it has brought everyone (sheep and goats) up about one point over the past ten days.

do you have the actual chart to compare or do you do it with the monitor of your computer? looking at the chart on my computer i would be very concern at number 2

Patty0315 · #9 09/21/06, 11:10 AM

Red Cell is a supplement sold with horse stuff. It is a great blood builder.

Patty

TC · #10 09/21/06, 11:14 AM

I agree with Susanne. Does she have a shiny, sleek coat, or is it rough looking? When a goat of mine, "gets wormy" , they lose weight, their coat changes appearance, and they don't have as much energy. If she is a light skinned goat, you can also look at their udder and backend around the tail base. Especially if she is a white goat, those areas will look white instead of pinkish color, if she is "wormy". Hope all that makes any sense at all.

MommaSasquatch · #11 09/21/06, 11:36 AM

She's got a pink bottom. I'm not entirely sure how sleek her coat should be. She's looking much smoother than she did earlier in the summer when my husband was taking care of her daily care (due to early pregnancy exhaustion I asked him to take over for several weeks) and unbeknownst to me wasn't feeding her properly. That's when she started to get skinny. He decided that since the sheep were just fine on pasture and a little bit of browse instead of alfalfa hay she would be too.

It took me a while to figure out he hadn't been giving her her hay like he should have. Yes, he got an earful for it and I've been working on getting her back into shape since then. Like I said, she's looking better, but I'd like to speed the process up.

TC · #12 09/21/06, 11:39 AM

Maybe you could offer her hay and pellets with the grass. Sometimes it takes awhile for them to put the weight back on, especially if you milk them. I will try to describe the rough coat, it's hard to tell without looking at them. You an actually feel it as rough, and it looks out of place. That makes no sense I know

Okay, another try....it just looks messy, like you'll see part of it going in different directions, instead of shiny and sleek.

Do you have a picture of her?

MommaSasquatch · #13 09/21/06, 12:12 PM

She's getting pellets free choice now (see OP) and in a few days she will be moved to another pasture with more browse available in addition to that. I corrected that problem as soon as I found out about it. I know milking her isn't helping her regain the weight any faster, that's partly why I took her down to once a day when she didn't put it back on right away with better feeding. I've considered drying her off entirely, but then we'd have to start buying rice milk again for my son so I was hoping to hold out for another month or two if possible. Ultimately if I can't get the weight back on her otherwise I will dry her off before breeding. I'll see about getting a picture, but probably not 'til tomorrow.

TexCountryWoman · #14 09/21/06, 12:51 PM

A good dairy goat shows some ribs after she has been in lactation for as long as yours has. She is turning her feed into milk which is a good characteristic. However, your concern tells me that she doesn't look quite right to you and you want her to look better before you breed her and put high demands on her body. Good for you.

This is what I would do if she were my goat and remember, we all do things differently and our own way. I would worm her with Cydectin Pour on for cattle ORALLY (by mouth) at the rate of 1cc/25lbs. I would fudge and give her 1-2 cc more than she needs....never underdose. That's me. I would give her another does in 19 days. I would breed her AFTER that as it is harmful to worm her with this while pregnant.

It sounds as if you are feeding her correctly but that she needs as bit of extra....she is getting grqin twice a day, right? I use a good bit of Beet pulp and it seems to keep weight on my milkers. I start slowly with it and it and work my way up to it being about 1/4 of their grain ration of the milkstand. It is about $10. per 40#. and it is fluffy and light so that goes a long way. I feed some mid day to all my goats as a treat also. They love it and it keeps them fat.

Keep feeding the BOSS....make sure you have good goat minerals out at all times. The copper and other elements are particulr important is she is in less that ideal shape and is carrying a worm load and is about to get bred. Freshen them up every day and she will eat more of them and be curious about them...yummy to her.

Check her feet to make sure she doen't have some kind of soreness or silent little infection or yeasty thing going on there that is distressing her.

And again, the main thing I would do is use the cydectin, it has changed my goats appearance and performance like you wouldn't believe and there is no milkwithrawal although many people throw the milk out for a few days just because.

susanne · #15 09/21/06, 12:52 PM

if you have wormed her correctly and feeding her right there is nothing you can do to speed up the weight gain. she has to gain the weight slowly that it is going in muscle and not building fat in her abdomen. fat will only lead to fatal outcome at late pregnancy and kidding.
if you have an meat animal you want to bring to auction co can feed corn to speed up the weight gain. those animals are going to die anyway

susanne · #16 09/21/06, 12:53 PM

cydectin is safe for pregnant does, ivermectin is not safe.
cydedctin does not kill all parasites and it is important to know what we are dealing with.

TexCountryWoman · #17 09/21/06, 01:11 PM

duplicate post

TexCountryWoman · #18 09/21/06, 01:20 PM

susanne, actually the reverse is true. ivermectin is SAFE in pregnancy....Cydectin is generally not considered safe in pregnancy.

MommaSasquatch · #19 09/21/06, 01:49 PM

I have only been giving her grain in the morning when I milk her but she eats it all (abt 3 lbs). When she was at her worst (around the time I figured out what was going on and nearly tore my dh a new you-know-what) her appetite was terrible and she wouldn't even take that much a day when we offered twice a day so this is a big improvement. Would it be better split up or should I be giving her more than 3 lbs a day? I don't want to make her sick by giving her too much. I'll see if I can get some beet pulp.

OK, I'm ordering the microscope today and I'll check poop as soon as it gets here. That can't take that much longer than waiting for results from a vet. She doesn't appear to be in imminent danger from worms at this point so a few more days wait shouldn't be any great tragedy. Then we'll see about further worming if needed.

For minerals she's getting a goat/sheep mineral free choice with a teaspoon of copper sulfate added to her feed once a week. Because we have sheep and goats together I can't leave goat mineral out free choice.

susanne · #20 09/21/06, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexCountryWoman

susanne, actually the reverse is true. ivermectin is SAFE in pregnancy....Cydectin is generally not considered safe in pregnancy.

searching the net diana. somehow i have in my head that i should not give ivermectin in the first trimester because the risk of deformities of the embryo.