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  #1  
Old 09/06/06, 03:05 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Cracked corn?

Will goats eat cracked corn and if so will it hurt bucks like grain will?

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  #2  
Old 09/06/06, 03:39 PM
 
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Location: northcentral MN
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Cracked corn is grain. They should eat it just like whole corn. As far as hurting them I would suppose so if it's overdone.

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  #3  
Old 09/06/06, 04:01 PM
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Location: mountains of northcentral PA
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ours love to eat it right off the cob-you would think it was candy
don't know if it's ok for the boys, though...

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  #4  
Old 09/06/06, 04:31 PM
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Grain, fed with alfalfa hay (or legume pasture) will not hurt the bucks. They need a ration that balances the calcium in the legumes, with the phosphorus in the grains (and yes, corn is a grain). If you are not feeding a calcium-rich feed such as alfalfa, then it would be better not to feed phosphorus-rich grains to your bucks.

Kathleen

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  #5  
Old 09/06/06, 11:44 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northeast Kingdom of Vermont
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I read the posts that state that it is the calcium to phophorus ratio that is important---it should be 2 to 2.5 parts calcium to 1 part phophorus. Only cracked corn has that type of ratio---BOSS and oats have a much higher percentage of phosphorus to calcium.

I don't know how much that actually means, just thought I'd throw it out there.

A goat vet around here told my friend that hard water is a bigger culprit in UC in bucks, which I am looking in to, as my water is VERY hard!

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  #6  
Old 09/07/06, 07:58 AM
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Nubian dairy goat breeder
 
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Location: michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jillis

A goat vet around here told my friend that hard water is a bigger culprit in UC in bucks, which I am looking in to, as my water is VERY hard!
that is interessting, did not think about that
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  #7  
Old 09/07/06, 08:39 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: northcentral MN
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Hard water is normally caused by calcium and/or magnesium. I've read that it is usually the phosphorus that causes the stones not calcium so hard water should help prevent it.

Anyone?

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  #8  
Old 09/07/06, 09:24 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: CHINA
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We have VERY hard water(I use a razor blade on my bath faucets)....I do catch as much water off metal barn roof as I can....and I do add vinegar to tap water buckets...I've not castrated any buck kids and also never fed any grain except for my new herd sire (almost 7m old) and never had ANY UC trouble. He gets about 2 cups of sweet 16 a day...I'm not willing to discount the heredity factor in this one either because a couple of the bucklings I sold elsewhere were heavily grained after purchase and also w/o problems and no use of ammonium chloride.

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  #9  
Old 09/07/06, 09:44 AM
 
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Location: Northeast Kingdom of Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishhead
Hard water is normally caused by calcium and/or magnesium. I've read that it is usually the phosphorus that causes the stones not calcium so hard water should help prevent it.

Anyone?
Calcium can also cause problems if there is too much in the diet. Also, you should try not to wether a buck that you will be raising (ie not butchering) until they are at LEAST 4 weeks old, as the procedure will cause the urethra to stop growing.
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  #10  
Old 09/07/06, 10:08 AM
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jillis
it should be 2 to 2.5 parts calcium to 1 part phophorus. Only cracked corn has that type of ratio
I don't know where you got this information from, but corn like all other grains has a high phosphorus (P) content and is very low in calcium (Ca).


Barley grain Ca=0.05 P=0.34
Corn grain Ca=0.05 P=0.27
Oat grain Ca=0.05 P=0.34
Rice bran Ca=0.09 P=1.57
Wheat Ca=0.13 P=1.13
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  #11  
Old 09/07/06, 11:45 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: northcentral MN
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I wonder about flower heads too. Since phosphorus is increased to aid flowering that makes me think that flower heads may have a higher amount of phosphorus than leaves or stems.

My goats really like the flower heads of asters and seem to eat almost every flower except goldenrod. Later the dried up goldenrod flower heads are a delicacy.

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  #12  
Old 09/07/06, 01:25 PM
Lonesome Doe Nubians
 
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Calcium can also cause problems if there is too much in the diet. Also, you should try not to wether a buck that you will be raising (ie not butchering) until they are at LEAST 4 weeks old, as the procedure will cause the urethra to stop growing.
................................

Adding to it all, there is no scientific evidence that this is true, in fact our 4H group when my kids were small proved this to be wrong....ie...once buckling brother was kept intact while the other wethered at birth...open butcher, a 4H demo on feild necropsy and butcher for the parents the penis was left intact on both bucks and my vet nor us under microscope could see any difference at all.

This is not a disease process of the wethered or the intact, it's a problem because of the kink in the plumbing male goats have, it gives the perfect place for blockage to start. It's the diet we feed them that helps the process along. I also agree about the water issue, as even with AC added to the diet their are parts of Texas that still have urinary calculi problems. I think sulfure and heavy metals block the absorption of calcium in the diet, hence not only UC but metobolic disease in heavy bred milkers.

I was actually going to answer this question in another vein...be very careful of cheap corn feeds this year, all crops have been stressed due to the heat and drought, this sets of poisions, purrisic acid, anafloxin etc....in the grain that posions your stock. Not a time to buy anything cheap like deer corn etc., and feed to your livestock, be warry of corn bailed for hay! Vicki

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  #13  
Old 09/08/06, 06:10 AM
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northeast Kingdom of Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by witchysharon
I don't know where you got this information from, but corn like all other grains has a high phosphorus (P) content and is very low in calcium (Ca).


Barley grain Ca=0.05 P=0.34
Corn grain Ca=0.05 P=0.27
Oat grain Ca=0.05 P=0.34
Rice bran Ca=0.09 P=1.57
Wheat Ca=0.13 P=1.13
I have a website that gives the nutritional analysis of several food products. I couldn't find it for feeds so I did oats, corn kernels, and sunflower seed kernels on this site. It gives every detail including the amino acids, the minerals, the calories, and etc.

Perhaps it is different for animal feeds? Do you have a link I can go to find comparisons myself?

I appreciate the info. I couldn't find a nutritional analysis of alfalfa pellets anywhere.

Vicki, that is very interesting about the bucks and wethers...I read that on goat site, but I know that very often the info you get on various goat subjects can be contradictory and confusing.
My property has a well on it that could be used for animals. It used to be the well for the house, and one of the people who owned it for years before the deeper well was drilled told us they never had a problem with hard water. There was a drought here one year and that well ran dry at that time. So that particular owner had a well drilled 120 ft. down that gives 60 gpm of very clean, very cold, very hard water. If not, I will have to get a water softener and a water filter. We planned on it anyway. The other well is open, with just a board over it, but I think we could probably build a well house over it. It happens to be right next to the upper barn, which could be convenient.
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  #14  
Old 09/08/06, 06:14 AM
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northeast Kingdom of Vermont
Posts: 2,680

Just wanted to add that the water I am using doesn't have sulfur or other heavy metals. I was completely tested prior to our purchasing this house. It is, however, loaded with lime, which translates into calcium.

So is that a bad thing?

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  #15  
Old 09/08/06, 02:04 PM
Lonesome Doe Nubians
 
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Location: North of Houston TX
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Gosh I have no idea Most of what I know is about here, in the south. I know in trying to fix our copper problems, our well water showed heavy iron, we knew this, but also zinc, which was likely from the galvanized pipes we had at the time...both block absorption of copper and calcium. I hate answering like this but you really need to talk to a nutritionist, perhaps at a major mill (not feed store) in your area? Vicki

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Round 2 of kidding starts May 15th, a few doelings and bucklings will be for sale.

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  #16  
Old 09/08/06, 03:04 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jillis
I have a website that gives the nutritional analysis of several food products. I couldn't find it for feeds so I did oats, corn kernels, and sunflower seed kernels on this site. It gives every detail including the amino acids, the minerals, the calories, and etc.

Perhaps it is different for animal feeds? Do you have a link I can go to find comparisons myself
I got those particular numbers from an equine site

http://shady-acres.com/susan/Calcium-Phosphorus.shtml

Even when I did a search on the nutritional analysis of sweet corn, the same was true....much more phosphorus than calcium (yellow corn: Ca=7 mg P=210 mg)

http://www.elook.org/nutrition/grains/6586.html
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  #17  
Old 09/08/06, 03:05 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northeast Kingdom of Vermont
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Thanks, Vicki, and all who answered my personal questions on this thread. Yes, the Poulin Grain Mill has a vet on hire that answers these types of questions. I had forgotten that until just now. Thank you!

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  #18  
Old 09/08/06, 08:59 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: northcentral MN
Posts: 13,697

Does anyone have the calcium content of various "weeds"?

I understand that it is somewhat soil dependent because if it isn't in the soil it can't be in the weeds but there must be some general numbers somewhere.

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