I am ready to get out of the goat business

[boermommy]

I have a herd of registered boer goats in North Carolina. We've been at it about two years.

We don't have a big place...about 19 registered does, one registered buck and one little doe that wasn't worth a plugged nickel to anybody but my family...her name was Nutmeg.

Well, last night Nutmeg died with no warning. My family is broken-hearted to say the least. At 2:30 yesterday, she was fine. At 7:00 last night, we found her in the pasture unable to hold up her head with stiff back legs.
Thirty minutes later, she was moving her head and all of her legs. Thirty minutes after that, she was gone.

Over the last two years, I have lost three does(including Nutmeg's mom, Daisy) to what I can only describe from research as Listeriosis. I lost a baby to bloat before I knew what that was...and the local vet didn't have a clue either. I lost a another doe last month to Ketosis. I delivered eleven healthy babies in March and April. They get Bar Guard at birth and Immuno-G for three days after birth.

I vaccinate for CD&T, I worm with Valbazan at least every 60 days. They have clean water and 7 acres of browse and they each get a scoop of 16% sweet feed mixed with Performance pellets every night. AND, they have mineral blocks in the field whenever they want. I keep the barn cleaned out and cover the floor with lime afterwards.

I do all the research that I can do to stay up on things and I am still losing does when I seem to do everything right according to the books.

I am ready to sell out and take the loss because my heart can't take it any more. Would somebody please tell me what I am doing wrong?

[Allan Mistler]

boermommy,
We suffered the same emotions as we went through unexplainable deaths in our own barn. Even after sending the kids for treatment and ultimately autopsy at the regional veterinary university, the causes were different evry time. One year we lost about eight new-borns within two days only to discover that the wood shavings we were using (thinking cleanliness is next to Godliness) had been treated with a chemical (poisonous) to prevent mold, mildew etc. and the kids got shavings in their mouths. The previous year we lost several because (as we discovered later) New England hay lacks critical minerals for early development.
In both of these cases, and there were others as well, we suffered the emotional pain but realized that we could not have learned about these problems by reading any book. There was no basis for guilt and the amazing things that we did diagnose and solve successfully such as prolapsed uterus, breach birth etc. brought us back to the reality that things happen and how we deal with them determines what we become.
I can only say that learning and loss is part and parcel of growing.
Hang in there!!!

[6e]

Things seem to go in spells, both good and bad. There are times when you can do everything right and still what ever you put your hand to fails and you don't know why. But, it does pass and then it will be all good for awhile.
Hang in there, as my mom always tells me....."This too shall pass."
We've raised rabbits for over 18 years, pretty much seen it all and yet last summer we had trouble with losing one rabbit after another. One evening they were fine and the next morning dead. Still don't know why, but we lost an awful lot of rabbits before it finally stopped. We took excellent care of them, they were in clean cages and no contact between the rabbits that died and no symptoms........

[Milk n' Honey]

boermommy,

You are not the only one, trust me. It is hard to go through. A goat breeder once told me that if you can't take the losses, you shouldn't raise livestock and now I see that she was right. You have to be able to deal with it. It is frustrating and heartbreaking but some slight detachment is required to live with it. Besides, you know that the fun parts are worth it. At least, I think so. I lost a $600 show doe to listeriosis and a $375 Fullblood Boer buckling to what the vet determined to be the aftermath of naval ill. If we had more knowledge, we might have saved one or both of those. We bought our first goat a year ago and have about 35 goats now. We are done purchasing but are sure to lose more. It is inevitable. We just recently had a major problem with hoof scald on about 4 goats and one of them is our herdsire for this fall. He was almost completely lame with swollen leg, proud flesh on hoof, etc. We almost have it all cleared up. Bucky is up and walking on his leg again, proud flesh fell off (thank goodness). My husband said that he was ready to sell out. We've been there too. However, I know that each year will get better as we learn more and experience more. You obviously care about your animals so they are lucky to have you. As far as your goat husbandry....look at what you are feeding. Goats are what they eat just like us and every other living creature. Listeriosis is most commonly caused from moldy hay. We recently made some improvements to our hay storage area to keep moisture out of the hay. We put cinder blocks down with wooden pallets on top of those so that there is a layer of air between the floor and the hay. We feed Kents pelletized goat feed. Goats don't need much grain ration. In fact, you can do a lot of harm to a goat by giving them too much grain. Bucks typically never need grain. Does in milk need it, as well as a good quality hay but depending on your "scoop" size (we have the large red plastic one from the farm store), a whole scoop per animal could be too much. One lesson that we have learned is not to underestimate the importance of free choice mineral and baking soda for the goats. They need a lot of variety of minerals which is almost impossible to provide without the mineral supplement. Do you bottle feed your babies? If so, do they get colostrum? Aside from what I've mentioned, it might be nothing you are doing. This might be the worst of it and you won't have so much trouble after this. The bad things is that hardly anyone knows enough about goats for it to be easy to get into raising them without much difficulty. The school of hard knocks seems to be the way of learning the ropes and it is none too fun. It will get better. You'll start catching things sooner and recognizing problems before they get out of hand. The problems are frustrating but we are already feeling more "in touch" with the goats since we've experienced the problems. Maybe you should stick with it another year and then decide. I'd say we are newbies for several years!! Imagine all the problems some of the veterans on here have seen!! There is a reason why they are so much help in a time of need!! Keep your chin up and hang in there. I'm truly sorry for your losses. God bless.

[boermommy]

My goats only eat hay when there is snow on the ground here. They have so much browse that they stay pretty fat all year long.
As far as the scoop size goes on the feed, it's a small one...they might get 2 1/2 cups each.

I am at a loss here. My two teenage daughters (one of which doesn't even like the farm) have told me that they can't take it anymore. The Listeriosis deaths were the most painful things I've ever experienced. Head drawn back to one side, paralysis on one side and crying constantly. Why does this keep happening?

[dbarjacres]

I'm sorry about your problems, and can't help you out with that, but to say, know the feeling! We haven't had as many problems as you are this year, but between problems with our ducks, donkeys (abortion and 2 colics), and minor goat things, it's sure a wonder sometimes if it's more stress then it's worth. I'm still deciding.....sure do love our animals tho! Altho those darn ducks may be leaving soon if the first one doesn't taste good in a couple weeks! Good luck to you.

[Milk n' Honey]

Listeriosis can be in the ground. It can also be in moldy feed or silage. Check all your feed. Listeriosis can be carried in the goats and just crop up one day. Stress can bring it on. It is awful...a terrible thing to watch. I wanted to get sick watching our doe go through it. I fed her with a syringe...the whole nine yards...until she finally gave up the fight. I would be careful about feeding 2 1/2 cups of feed per goat. You can ask others' opinions about it but everything I've read has suggested no more than 1/2 cup per doe. Look into it though. I'm not saying that is killing them but it can be just as unhealthy to overfeed them as to underfeed them. A 1/2 cup doesn't look like much but it is enough, I guess. If they have plenty of browse and they aren't in milk, they don't even need feed. I hope things look up for you. Take care!!

[collegeboundgal]

don't keep using the same wormer every time. the worms build up a resistance to the wormer and it's like you never even wormed them. try switching wormers EVERY time. you should only worm after taking fecals. (take some goat poop to the vet, fresh stuff; try not to let it hit the ground, in a zip lock bag.) that way, you’re not worming if you don't need to and giving the worms a chance to get resistance to the wormer. this won’t solve all your problems but it might help.

-Melissa

[nubiannana]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is Listeriosis?

[Milk n' Honey]

nubiannana,

Listeriosis is an infection which generally affects the brain but another strain can also cause abortions. Paralysis on one side of the face is the most obvious sign. The goat may circle, push against a wall and will only face one direction against something. They can't even blink the one eye and it will dry out without vaseline. Drool comes out of one side of the mouth just like a stroke victim. In most cases, the goat will die. It is difficult to combat and heartbreaking to watch. I guess you can tell that I have been through it. It is TERRIBLE. I hope to never have to deal with it again.

I second collegeboundgal about the deworming. We check our goats gums and eyelids. If they are pink, the goat acts and looks healthy and we see no obvious signs of worms, we don't typically worm. Overworming can indeed eventually cause your deworming medications to become ineffective. The worms on the ground at your place will get used to it and it will eventually not kill them. There aren't any other deworming medications on the market yet so we are stuck with what we have. For this reason, many vets are recommending that we only worm when needed instead of for prevention. Fecals are a good idea and if you do that, take goat "berries" from 4 or 5 different goats so you can be sure to get accurate herd-wide results. Take care now!

[pourfolkes]

I just lost my 3rd goat for this year.... he had the same thing with the stiff back legs. I thought it was the listerosis too but I took him to the vet and turned out to be coccidyosis.

[goatkid]

I'm so sorry you've lost those goats. Evenwhen we do everything right, we can lose some. I had a doe who died last spring 12 days after kiddding. She was fine in the morning and dead and bloated when I came home from work. She had an easy delivery and didn't get milk fever like a couple of the other does (they survived). It sounds like Nutmeg had tetanus. I'm wondering if you got some bad vaccine.

[Dallas]

Have you had them checked for worms? Try worming them with Cydectin. Especially if you are worming them that often, the worms are probably not responding to this wormer.
A goat is born looking for a way to die, just keep a close eye on them, looking for any unusual behavior. Goat are a herding animal therefor they try to hid any sickness. Many times when you notice something is wrong, it is too late. The key is to catch it early.

[TexCountryWoman]

So sorry you are disgeartened.

A goat is not born looking for a way to die. Goats are healthy animals if we treat them right. We just have to treat them right. So we stay on the hunt for knowledge.

I would stop feeding those Boers sweetfeed altogether. My Boers NEVER get it. Unless you are seperating each and every goat at feeding time, how do you know how much feed each goat is getting? Sweetfeed can be lethal. When I first started out many years ago, i killed lots of goats with sweetfeed because I had no idea that just a little too much would bloat and kill them. I had no concept of what i was doing. Now my goats get freechoice alfalfa pellets which they don't bloat on. They get browse and hay and alfalfa pellets. That's it unless they are close to the end of prenancy and then they get a little dry grain (a combo of oats, corn chops, Black oil sunflower seeds and beet pulp...2 cups a day max) the bucks never get grain. I have my goats separated in a way that I can control their feed intake.

I worm with cydectin every 19 days for 3 rounds then as needed. Good goat minerals are available all times.

Sometimes we over care for our goats. Too much of a good thing can be bad. Goats are looking for a way to thrive. We need to let them.

[boermommy]

Well things are looking up today.

I had two sick ones yesterday, a 1 1/2 year old doe and a 4 month old doe. They had severe runs and would not eat a bite all day. I was at a loss and played doctor all day.

Treated both for cocci and they are now eating and doing better. I now suspect that possibly was the problem with my beloved Nutmeg.

The lovliest woman from Goat 911 helped me and made me feel so much better. Turns out she only lives about 30 miles from here. She was a godsend that I really needed.

Two more questions dear friends................
1-What kind of Cydectin do I buy? and
2-Does anybody use Corid in their water supply?

[collegeboundgal]

not sure of the Cydectin, vet just gives me a small bottle and I give orally.
on the corid, I'v always drenched them (squart right into the mouth) but it is made so you can mix with water. only you'll need to make sure the animal has no other water from which to drink from. I'm not sure how you can be sure of how much each animal gets this way though.

-Melissa