Why "minis"?

[Idahoe]

While surfing I did some googling on "mini" versions of Saanen, LaMancha, Alpine etc, and I notice many of you have or breed them. I understand they are the product of a Nigerian Dwarf buck and a doe of any dairy breed, and the resulting kids are sort of like smaller versions of the dam.

So I have some questions I couldn't find answers to online.

What are the benefits of mini dairy goats over the standard size? Right off, the milk will have higher butterfat thanks to the ND, less feed perhaps?

I saw references to "second generation" minis, bucks and does. I am no geneticist but how could they breed true?

I am interested in these smaller versions because they appear to be easier to handle, give a decent amount of milk for their size, and are bottomlessly cute.

Oh, and I didn't know this: Nigerian Dwarfs are achondroplastic dwarves, the same condition as human dwarfism. Fascinating. But when two little people (human) have children together, there are unfortunate genetic consequences at times due to the dwarfism that are incompatible with life. Sounds like it is a genetically stable condition in goats, though.

TIA for any and all feedback, this has been on my mind all morning, and this will be my first breeding season with my does.

[Carrie C]

1~ Benefits: smaller size, way better udder attachments than kinders for the most part (Nubian x pygmy). Higher butterfat, yes, also. But smaller size is a big one.
2~ 1st generation minis are the direct ofsping of a cross between a big dairy doe and a Nigerian Dwarf buck. 2nd generation minis are two 1st generations bred together. 2nd generations are bred together for 3rd, and so on and so forth.
Usually breeders breed up, they get the truest mini representations of the big goat features and breed them for just as good or better offspring. Yes, they are still 50%-50%, but the best features of their parents holds out with a lot of fingers crossed, because it doesn't always hold out, but often does.
I don't know about the genetic make-up of Nigerian Dwarves and what makes them small, but they've been around a while now, and pleanty of offspring of nigerian dwarves have come into the world, with no more complications than big goats, that I know of.
Best wishes!

[moonspinner]

It's actually pygmies who are achondroplastic dwarves. Nigerians are most often referred to as pituitary dwarves, meaning they are (ideally) a perfectly proportioned, downsized version of a standard breed, closest to a French alpine. We could get into a major discussion on this going back to the origin of the breed in West Africa. There were at least seven related types of the West African Dwarf which combined pygmies and nigies. If you want to get technical there are nigerians who show, at least in their phenotypes, characteristics of both achondro and pituitary dwarf. But I think most will agree in general that it's the pygmy with its more oversized head and shorter legs, big barrel, etc that show achondroplastic characteristics over the nigerian who is the more balanced, proportioned breed.

[Idahoe]

Thanks, Carrie. I love the idea of a small goat, and since the buck services around here aren't what I want, I may get a buck. An NG SEEMS easier to handle than a full size. Also two of my best does are very small boned, and the one bred to a Saanen buck had dystocia and lost her buckling (the prev owner thought he could have pulled it but was out when she kidded). First freshener, great everything, but delicate.

I expected it to be more complicated, but am glad it is not.

Moonspinner: No kidding. I thought I read that in Goat Medicine, and looked for it. All I found was a sentence about achondroplastic features in NDs, but no direct reference, like I thought. The Pygmy body style does make more sense. Just thought it was interesting that dwarfism could be so successful it becomes a breed. And the pituitary vs achondro bit is even more interesting. Thanks for the clarification.

[Jillis]

Why is everyone talking as if more butterfat were a bad thing? The reason I have Nigies and minis in my herd is for cheesemaking. Butterfat is not bad for you---unless it is pastuerized.

[coso]

To me it always seem like the ND head is more out of proportion (bigger) compared to body size then the Pygmies are? The kids of the ND sure are cute but just don't like the looks of the adults. Just my preference. I know since I raise the earless wonders, and a lot of folks just hate the looks of them.

[Idahoe]

Originally Posted by coso

To me it always seem like the ND head is more out of proportion (bigger) compared to body size then the Pygmies are? The kids of the ND sure are cute but just don't like the looks of the adults. Just my preference. I know since I raise the earless wonders, and a lot of folks just hate the looks of them.

I didn't like the looks of the LaMancha at first either . . . they looked like bug-eyed aliens. But their looks grow on you fast. Now there is something so sweet about those little faces to me, streamlined like a 20's flapper girl with the super short sleek hair. The personalities are so sweet that helps too.

Originally Posted by Jillis

Why is everyone talking as if more butterfat were a bad thing? The reason I have Nigies and minis in my herd is for cheesemaking. Butterfat is not bad for you---unless it is pastuerized.

I would prefer higher butterfat actually, another plus with the ND genes. I have only made soft cheeses so far and wish I had more now. Didn't know pasteurization caused changes in butterfat, but since I don't pasteurize I'll not be worried.

OK, talked to DH about getting a buck (which he wanted anyway, but I didn't), and he told me to go for whatever I wanted. So I'll start putting feelers out for an NG buck. I probably won't breed my yearlings until November because it still snows here in April, and then my doelings until early spring when they're a full year old.

Appreciate the responses!

[dbarjacres]

We have mini lamanchas and Nigerians and love both. The minis are easy to handle, eat less, are great for people in the pet market or just want a small amt. of milk and not a gallon a ay

I have to say, what I know about nigerians, a big head is a huge fault and to me would say it's either got something wrong with it or has pygmy breeding. pygmies have huge heads, one reason they have kidding problems. our nigerians don't have any bigger head proportionatly than a full size breed. Pygmies are basically a barrel with legs and a big ole head stuck on. Nigerians need to be proportionate in size, just like a mini dairy goat.

Jenny
www.dbjacres.com