is there such a thing as blood test to determine the breed of a goat?

[Faithful Heart]

Knowing the breed/breeds of my buck just seems important to me. And I can't seem to get the answer from the lady I got him from. She's a co-worker, but has been out on leave due to knee surgery.

Not knowing his breed is really driving me nuts! Especially since I THINK he might be part Kiko..... which I would be SO thrilled about. At this point all I've got to go by is the way he looks and the way he acts. I need something more accurate than that.

Are there tests out there to find out what breed or breeds he is?

[chamoisee]

The cost of the test would be prohibitively expensive, if you could find someone to do it for you.

Why don't you post a picture of him here instead? Include full body, profile of the head, and straight on.

[Faithful Heart]

I had somewhat done that in another post a few weeks back. I'm not sure how many on the forum have kikos. It seems most people have dairy, mini, or boars.

My main reason for wanting to know, is then I could make a plan for what kind of breeding buck he'd be for us. We've got a boar/kiko doe, and if he's stronger in dairy - then we'd rather get him a dairy doe and find another buck for this doe. We have no intentions of showing, or breeding for sale. So no papers pr registrations are needed. Just breeding for home use. So with the doe being a meat breed, I want to breed her to a meat buck. Plus, we plan to get a dairy doe (maybe in the spring) and want/need to plan what buck we still need - dairy or meat.

But here he is anyway. He's nearly 4 months old. He has a quiet, curious, independant personality. Not needy, not a cry baby (was a bottle baby), not real loud (the boar is louder than him - way louder). The boar doe is my only comparision to goats. He forages really well - she's relativly picky. His hair is courser, and his hooves are more narrow and not as soft (her hooves actually grow faster). The doe is strong boar.



A shot of his horns and hooves.

[APPway]

From the pics to me he looks like a alpine or nuby mix but that is hard to say from pics beings the lady you got him from has not been at work why don't you just go to where you got him and ask to see his mum and dad. There are not alot of Pure Bred Kiko breeders around and alot of people that say the have Kikos are just a mix of alot of breeds same with spanish goats.
Did you get the doe from the same lady? maybe she can help yoou on the breed beings she must have Kiko's if your doe is boar/kiko
You can't tell alot about kiko breeding from a pic even pure bred is hard to tell from a pic.
If he is just 4 months in the photo I would say he will be a good meat buck as he seems real meaty and growthy for his age.

appway

[Faithful Heart]

I got the buck from a co-worker, who got it from some guy she knows. I haven't felt comfortable asking for his direct phone number to ask HIM. She was telling me - "I'll ask him when I see him". But now with the knee surgery.... I'm sure she has enough on her plate. She doesn't know much about goats, and was only able to tell me that this buck's mother was white, with a brown/red head, and floppy ears (that sounds boar). She believes the guy only keeps meat goats. In this area most of the goats, (especially meat goats) are boar, and in the last year kikos have become popular. Everyone is trying to turn their herds into Genemasters it seems (following the fad), using the boar does they have, and spending high dollars to get themselves one kiko buck. I've seen a few spanish looking goats at the auction, but kiko mixes are more common - especially boar or boar/kiko does bred to kiko bucks. NO ONE around here lets go of good or fair kiko mixes easily, as they're all trying to start their herds. Everyone around here I talk to with kikos appears to be in their first year of boar/kiko breeding. They're holding onto almost everything (bunches of 50/50), to see what they might use in their future breeding. I haven't heard of anyone around here having fainting goats. Most of the dairy goats I see around here are alpine or alpine mixes.

The doe came from someone else - in Florida. I know she's 3/4 boar & 1/4 kiko, and looks completely boar.

My hope, dream, or ideal...... would be that this little buck is 50/50 boar/kiko. Cause then I'd be able to have my own little genemasters with this doe we have (5/8 boar, 3/8 kiko). Not so much that I want to chase the fad too (neither goat is registered, so can't sell them as anything special)..... but I do hear the mix makes for a nice meat goat.

[chamoisee]

I have never seen a Kiko (and I've seen a lot of goats, just not Kikos that I know of). My best guess on the goats I have seen is that he is probably half boer (his dam) and because his head looks dairy, half Saanen or Alpine. The shape of the face is dished. That's my opinion. He looks like he's nice and meaty.

[Freeholder]

Originally Posted by chamoisee

I have never seen a Kiko (and I've seen a lot of goats, just not Kikos that I know of). My best guess on the goats I have seen is that he is probably half boer (his dam) and because his head looks dairy, half Saanen or Alpine. The shape of the face is dished. That's my opinion. He looks like he's nice and meaty.

That's what I was going to say, also -- half Boer and the rest either Alpine or Saanen. I doubt that he's part Kiko -- from what you were saying, if he was, someone would have held onto him. But he looks like a nice little buck, and I think would probably make a good match with your doe. Of course, you can never be completely sure how two animals will cross until you've tried it once or twice.

Kathleen

[KSALguy]

there is no Boer blood in him to speek of, if there is its not enough to spit at, my guess is he is just a standard mixbreed what some would call Spanish if he had come from a feral invironment but there is no breed that has marked him so to say he is Half this or Half that,

if your just wanting goats to have goats he is perfect for that, if your wanting to breed for milk production the best you can hope for from him is just to freshin your does nothing more,
if your wanting to breed for meat he again will only produce kids nothing fancy in eather department,
he is obviously an awsome pet but once his hormones kick in full drive he wont be pet material he will be a breeding machine and with no real credintials he wont pass on anything great to his kids.


what I would do sence he is such a nice goat for you is have him castrated and keep him as a wether and keep him as a pet, then figure out if you want meat or milk and find eather a good dairy buck or a good Boer buck,
Kikos are more of a Novelty and cannot compeat fairly with a boer for meat production. its like compairing a Black Angus to a Longhorn brush cow, the Boer will win

[Faithful Heart]

Some really good points brought up. Especially by KSALguy.

Seeing as how I have limited property, and therefore need to limit the amount of goats I keep, at this point I wouldn't really want to wether him. Wouldn't feel comfortable eating him either (not that anyone brought that up), since he's my first. Sentimental stuff. If we decided not to use him as a buck, we'd likely sell him at auction. And I know that means someone else would probably eat him. Most bucks end up there one way or another.

I guess I just have to see how a breeding or two goes with him and the doe. If it works for our desires, fairly meaty babies, then all will work out. Like I'd mentioned, we have no desire to sell fancy papered babies - just raise our own meat. The lady I got him from, I think, got him for free..... I then bartered for him, trading 5 adult salmon faverolle chickens & 10 baby chicks. Reason I think she got him free is because she also had his sister, and was bottle feeding them both. She was desperate to find a home for the buck by 8 weeks of age since he was trying to breed his sister. I can't imagine she BOUGHT a brother/sister pair. A friend or something probably gave them to her because they needed bottle feeding, and they didn't want to (or couldn't) do it.

Well..... whatever he is, I think he's pretty nice looking - nicely built, and could maybe make some ok babies. I've just never felt he looked very "dairy", and have told my husband all along I think he'd do alright with a meat doe. AND... having never had goats before, these are our experimental goats (or learning goats). I'm not prepared to shell out hundreds on what I'd call my ideal.

Thanks everyone!

[chamoisee]

I think he's too well fleshed to be a Spanish goat or even half Spanish, along with wondering whether you even have Spanish goats out there, usually I saw those in Texas, New Mexico, and such. The ears look Spanish, but you also get those ears if you cross long eared breeds with Swiss.

The color shows underlying red covered by white, another reason I do think he is part Boer. The face around the eyes has a distinctly Saanen look, and he sounds like he has the Saanen voice and personality, laid back and calm.

Of course, he could be 3-4 different things, who knows....what matters is that you're happy with him and he suits your goals for now, until you upgrade.

The other thing that makes me think half Boer is his conformation- his back is not level and his rump slopes quite a bit, something you see in quite a few Boers, and he is too heavy boned and fleshed out to be all dairy.

[KSALguy]

he has no roman nose, he is narrow built, and short in length, all three of which say there is no boer in there to speek of unless its a drop,

Boer chericteristics are VERY dominant, and you can have just a little boer in an animal and it will look boer, IE colord head, floppy ears, roman nose, and thick built with a good length to his back.

haveing been a Boer breeder and will be again when i get to a more permanant location and haveing used some spanish does for some percentage breedings thats why i hazzard to guess he is just a mixed up "spanish" goat, but he could be mixed up with who knows what.

he will deffinatly give you kids, but if they take on his narrow build there wont be as much meat as there could be.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

I don't join in with the gals at shows bumping 4H kids does to confirm them being bred, and joining in on guessing what breed a goat is, is about the same I could pretty cerainly tell you what your goat is not.

But to answer you initial question....NO there is no database of breeds of goats. If his dam and sire have been DNA bloodtested, than yes we could confirm who is dam and sire is. But to just send in his blood and tell you if he is part dairy, part boer, part kinko or whatever, No, it doesnt' work like that. Just like you couldn't send blood in from your dog and have them tell you yes he is or isn't pure collie, or half shihtzu unless his parents are already in the database. I am on the Bloodtyping committee with ADGA. Vicki

[Corky]

I think Vicki is right. You really can't tell by looking what he is but it is fun to guess. Being the goat expert I am ( NOT). I guess that he is part saanan and also has some nubian in him of course he could be part boar but they are from the Nubian line too so that would make me right anyway. Right Vicki??

OK! OK! maybe I am reaching but he has those long legs of the nubian. Looks a lot sannan though. He also has airplane ears which says he is from a line that had long ears crossed with upright ears. That causes those hanging flaps.

If he was a dog I would say he was 100% heines 57. My favorite breed!

[khowellrn]

If I was raising goats for personal use, (which I am, hehe) I wouldn't be wanting to feed two billys anyways! It is a good sound meaty looking goat. Maybe you should try breeding him to each dam (your meat doe and dairy doe), see what the results are, then decide wether or not to get an additional mouth to feed! He may turn out to be all the man you need if the girls have the right stuff!

[Faithful Heart]

Originally Posted by khowellrn

If I was raising goats for personal use, (which I am, hehe) I wouldn't be wanting to feed two billys anyways! It is a good sound meaty looking goat. Maybe you should try breeding him to each dam (your meat doe and dairy doe), see what the results are, then decide wether or not to get an additional mouth to feed! He may turn out to be all the man you need if the girls have the right stuff!

This is pretty much what I'm trying to convince my husband of. My main reason for ever wanting to get a dairy doe is for the milk. I figure...... in my simple "I know nothing about breeding" attitude..... is that people DO eat dairy goats. They don't offer MUCH meat, but some, so even the babies from him and a dairy doe will offer meat.

I have absolutely loved all the small details that have been noticed on the little buck. Since most of you have been around more goats, and have been able to see what aspects of body type will do what, THAT ALONE even helps me see potential or lack of. I wish I could fast forward several years of experience, but since that's not possible, I'll just have to wait till next year when the doe starts dropping babies. One day (maybe a year from now) I'll have a different buck. Something meatier for sure. Be nice if I had someone like KSALguy around to help me "kick tires" while I shopped. That would be handy.

But since my doe is 3/4 boar, I shouldn't do too bad. I'm sure I'll be happy with the pairing. Atleast until I learn more about what meat babies SHOULD look like.

[KSALguy]

well i am not TOO terribly far away lol, i like "Kicking Tires" lol, just not when car shopping, (know NOTHING about cars) but i sure can pic out good livestock. and i like being able to help others.

in any case this is a learning experiance, and he will impregnate your does as soon as they are ready and you can learn from there/

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by Faithful Heart

is that people DO eat dairy goats. They don't offer MUCH meat, but some, so even the babies from him and a dairy doe will offer meat.

We butcher a lot of dairy wethers and if you take them right off their dams between the ages of 3-5 months....nice bit of meat there and its yummy!! Nothing wrong with eating a dairy breed. Its all good.

[khowellrn]

Good luck with your project! It really starts to get fun when you get a "feel" for what's right, and you make a descision that is good, and you realize you are starting to know what you are doing!

[Corky]

OK, I googled Kiko's and took a good look at them.
They are a meat goat and this guy is a little fleshy. The forward tilt of the ears look a little Kiko too but the horns should be turning sideways and they are not.
He is just the right age to be dinner too. If he is a mix and you are wanting to improve your herd I wouldn't think you would want to breed him but heck,
he is your goat and your decision. If you are thinking he is a meat breed and has just enough dairy in him to produce daughters for the best of both worlds then give it a try and see what happens.

[Faithful Heart]

I had meant to respond before this.... but been SO busy.

Originally Posted by KSALguy

well i am not TOO terribly far away lol, i like "Kicking Tires" lol, just not when car shopping, (know NOTHING about cars) but i sure can pic out good livestock. and i like being able to help others.

in any case this is a learning experiance, and he will impregnate your does as soon as they are ready and you can learn from there/

LOL Sounds like it would fun...... but doubt I'll be shopping much till my babies get bigger.

Originally Posted by Corky

If he is a mix and you are wanting to improve your herd I wouldn't think you would want to breed him but heck,
he is your goat and your decision. If you are thinking he is a meat breed and has just enough dairy in him to produce daughters for the best of both worlds then give it a try and see what happens.

Well, he truely is half my "herd" right now. Only him and a baby doe. Gotta start somewhere. But yeah, I think he'll do ok for what we need.