Severe hoof rot and TUMOR? HELP!!

[Milk n' Honey]

We have a Boer buck that has hoof rot. We have very wet conditions. We are treating him but we also noticed a fleshy growth protruding out from between the claws, on the bottom...like if you are getting ready to trim you'd see it. It looks like a piece of meat, literally. I don't know if it is a tumor or what. He is in pretty bad shape. We are treating him for the hoof rot and also shot him up with LA200 today. Also, the foot that is REALLY bad with the growth has a swollen ankle. I assume this is from the hoof rot. The growth is not an absess type thing but looks like a piece of steak of your plate...not to gross anyone out! That is the best way I can explain it. Scraping it a bit caused it to start bleeding a bit so it is a raw, fleshy growth. I don't know what to think about it. Any suggestions? We are obviously concerned. We bought this buck for a herdsire and certainly don't want to lose him to lameness or otherwise. I'd appreciate any help anyone can give. Thanks so much!!

[mammawof3]

That is what happens with really BAD hoof rot--takes a long time to heal it up once it gets like that!- i would continue LA 200 shots-daily--also squirt LA 200 on his foot several times a day after you have soaked it in bleach water for a few minutes too get all dirt out. (just a little bit of bleach in warm water) Good luck !

[Idahoe]

The tissue growing between his toes sounds like granulation tissue, which sometimes grows too exhuberantly around a chronic wound -- people get it too, around permanent tubes in their bodies like a G tube, etc. It is not a tumor or cancer, just looks terrible. Very friable and easy to make bleed. Usually not painful. It is a body's attempt to heal, only the new cells go kinda crazy and forget to quit and form skin over the top.

In people, it is treated with silver nitrate to chemical burn it down till it disappears. Often when the original problem is solved, it will dwindle away.

[Milk n' Honey]

OK, we are still doing the foot rot treatment on the feet. They are so sore. Poor things. I am quite concerned that this will continue until we get the water situation under control. We have a wooded area that is fenced. We get a lot of field drainage from the fields in front of our property. Then there is a creek in the back of the property. A drainage ditch needs dug out clear down to the creek. Right now, it is sitting swamped. It has been a rainy year. Here it is almost August and it is usually dry but not this year. We have to wait until it dries up so we can get a backhoe down in there to trench it out. There is plenty of high ground in the woods as it is hilly but they are walking through the water to get from one side to the other. Problem is, since this is caused by a bacteria that is left in the ground, how do I keep the goats from being recontaminated? We only have so many paddocks right now and moving them might not be feasible. I certainly want to make sure that they are healed completely before moving them and contaminating another pasture. YIKES!! It is always something!! Anyway, digging that ditch is in the plans for as soon as it dries out and then what can I do to kill the bacteria in the ground? There is about 3 acres of woods in this particular section but they mostly stay in the front half. I'll tell you, this goat ranching business isn't for the weak at heart (or stomach). We are still learning so much. I wish I knew some of this stuff going in but some of it you just can't prepare yourself for. I don't like learning at the expense of the animals. Some day we'll look back in disbelief at our mistakes probably!! Thank you so much for your advice. I'm still open to anything else. Oh, how much LA200 each day should be given? We gave him 9 cc today. They vet told us 4.5cc/100lb. That seemed like a lot and especially IM but we gave it to him. I don't think I got the last cc in. Burns, ya know? He sort of just flopped down because it hurt. Poor guy. I'll keep you posted.

[Faithful Heart]

Not an expert here..... but thinking on the bacteria in the ground part. Is it possible that once you've got it dry, that natural weather might clear it up? Such as cold weather, and sunlight?

I'd imagine it would stay in a constantly wet area, but cold (winter) and sun (spring) kill many bacterias.

[fishhead]

I wouldn't worry about the bacteria in the soil. It will always be there so don't try to eliminate it. Focus on making dry areas for the goats instead.

I'm very new at raising goats but have read that all injections can be put under the skin and don't need to be done IM. Talk to your vet to be sure.

[Milk n' Honey]

Faithful Heart - I think the bacteria will go dormant but probably not die...I think. There are dry areas for them to get to but they still don't stay out of that swampy area. I'm going to go work on throwing out some more gravel for them. We have another one limping. A couple of the goats actually seem to be resistant to the hoof rot because they have been right out there with the rest and haven't had a single problem. Those are the goats that we paid a lot of money for too. I've heard that good, healthy feet are a hereditary trait and one should try breeding that into his/her herd. Interesting..... We've had a tough spring to say the least. This is our first spring with goats. We have had 8 babies born here this year and lost just one so that is good I guess. Also, lost a high dollar goat to Listeriosis and another high dollar one to some weird thing...autopsy showed a chest full of absesses on a 3 month old Boer. Vet said it was most likely from bacteria traveling up through the umbilical cord AKA "naval ill." I wonder if the lady iodined his cord?? He might have been a nice buck but not now. We bottle fed him for 3 months...well actually it was mostly my husband...I did the milking. Anyway, now with the hoof rot, we are so scared to lose our buck and we aren't even in breeding season yet. It would be a huge loss to lose him now. He was quite expensive too. We have been learning a lot through that famous school of hard knocks. Hopefully it will get better. I thank God for this board. Everyone is so helpful. Thanks for your input.

Fishhead - The vet actually told us to give the antibiotics IM. She is a really good goat vet so we did what she told us. I've heard too that you should give them Sub-Q but figured there must be a reason to do it IM...perhaps more of the medicine is utilized with an IM injection?? Anyway, I don't really want to keep shooting him in the back legs. I know that LA200 hurts bad. I may choose to rotate each day with Sub-Q and IM. Thanks for your help. I'm going to check up on him.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

If this hoof rot is the bacteria form found in cattle herds, than the whole herd would be infected to some degree withthis. Hoof rot in goats is usually caused by defficency. A good strong set of hooves although would get overgrown, misshapen from all the wet, or have scald between the toes or staph around the claws, would not get rot if they were healthy. I would look at the copper issues of the farm, and why this one buck is involved? New? The heaviest used? Picked on? Is his stress level higher than others for a reason?

The soft spongy area on his hoof, usually found between the toes and the coranary band in horses and goats (where the meat of the leg meets the hoof wall) are abscess. The infection has gone systemic in the sole of the hoof, and now is going to blow out via the cornonary band or sidewall.

The best meds for topical use is iodine, just fill a coffee can with iodine, place the bucks foot into this several times a day.....you can also make hoof bathes with shallow pans or large spongy material (QCSupply.com) carries these, that can be soaked with foot dips for sheep. Also is Koopertox which is topical copper...makes sense that this would work well.

Bleach...it only works to kill minor bacteria on a clean surface. Soaking feet with this that aren't first spotlessly clean will not work, same with udders, same with floors. So if you choose to use bleach, than clean the foot of all organic material, manure, dirt etc., than let it work on the bacteria that is causing this infection if it is topical.

All over the counter antibiotics, because we give soo much of them to our goats with their quick metabolisims 4.5cc per 100 pounds of any 200 mg tetracycline, although you can give a loading dose of this IM, Goat Medicine and any small ruminante specialist you talk to would only recommend SubQ shots of this or pennicillin. Naxcel, and other powerful anitibiotics that are scripts are gvien in much less amounts and can be given IM, although alot are still given subq.

I would also use Banamine, not only for pain but for the swelling, the abscessed infection has now moved from the sole, to the cornonary band and now to the pastern (ankle) if it goes into the bloodstream you will loose the goat. Or perhaps Dex, both are vet scripts, so talking it over with a vet is going to be needed.....I don't think just tetracycline and foot bathes will be enough as agressive as this sounds with the pastern now involved. Vicki

[Milk n' Honey]

Vicki,

Thanks for your help. My husband went after some Banamine and Kopertox today. I am using some bleach water just to clean the hooves and then using a hoof rot treatment after they are clean. I will be starting on the Kopertox tomorrow and also giving another dose of LA200. I'm worried about him. I'm afraid if something happens to him, my husband will want to sell out. He is really frustrated. He says that they are a money pit....would like to see a bit of a return. We have lost so much so far. We are really starting in the hole. On a good note, we had triplet fullblood Boers born Saturday morning. Two bucklings and a doeling. They are really pretty. Somebody please tell me that things won't always be like this. It is so discouraging with all the illnesses and deaths. Thanks again.....