Another sick wether

[fishhead]

I'm new to goats so this "education" has me scratching my head.

Last week I had to put down a 4 month old wether Alpine. On day one he wasn't browsing with the others so I checked his temp. It was 106.5 so I gave him 5cc of penicillin that evening. After reading the label multiple times I dropped it to 1cc on evening 2 and 3. I now know to give it for 5 days. I gave him probios on morning 2 and 3. Each day he looked better on evening 4 he looked almost normal and was browsing along with the rest. I really expected him to be 100% on evening 5.

On evening 5 he looked like a completely different animal. His belly was gone, he was extremely weak, his head rotated with the left ear lower than the right and he could not chew. His appetite was good but he couldn't eat or swallow. I felt his jaw. No grating, no protest from him and it moved freely. I tried bottle feeding some molasses mixture but I had to squirt it into his mouth. When I gave him water he shoved his whole face in the bucket up to his eyes and held it there for at least 30 seconds but I saw no contractions. I gave him probios and readily took it. His lower left stomach felt hard.

The next morning he was worse and I put him down.

He had his first CD/T shot but not the second.

All the little wethers were banded and I just saw a sack on the ground so I'm wondering if he may have contracted tetanus at the wound even though he did have the first CD/T shot.

A few days later we gave all but 2 the second CD/T shot an a wormer. We couldn't catch them because they weren't bottle fed.

Now 2 days after the shot when I let them out of their daytime pasture to browse on another dike the 6 month old wether stayed on the roof of a shelter where he sleeps. He seemed very slow. Later he got down and walked into the other shelter. When I brought the herd back to the daytime pasture for the night he was lying down and appeared to be chewing his cud slowly. When I put grain into the community trough he stayed in the shelter so I gave him a little grain in a scoop. He ate it slowly. He was a little quicker this morning and I gave him some probios. I will give him some electolytes tonight. He always looks like his skin is tight so his stomach never swells up like the little guys or my mature doe when he browses. It looks normal.

Since this is all new to me and I never want to see another one go through what the little guy did I'm pretty nervous.

Is there something else I should be doing or watching for?

Thanks.

[Patty0315]

When was the last time they were wormed and with what ? How about coccidia treatment? Any old hay left laying in pasture ? Have you checked for poisonious weeds ?

cdt takes awhile to be effective. The shoud have been given a tetnaus shot alone that is fast acting but only gives temp immunity.

[goatkid]

It sounds like your first goat had either tetanus or listeriosis. With listeriosis, one side of the head will droop and the goat will have a fever. The treatment for this is antibiotics. Folks use either pennicillin or Biomycin for it. We also usually give thiamin in case the problem is goat polio. With tetanus, the treatment is tetanus antitoxin. Goats with tetanus are sensitive to touch and sometimes light and will have seizures when touched. Most animals with tetanus are put down. With your second wether, have you taken his temperature? Is it really hot where you live? If there is no fever, I would treat with probios and sodium bicarb. If he has a fever, I would administer Biomycin and 3-5 cc of thiamin.

[fishhead]

I don't know when they were wormed prior to moving to my farm but we did worm all but 2 last Monday when we gave them the CD/T booster shot. I forget what wormer the owner brought but it was a white liquid that she squirted in their mouth. She said it would work for lungworm and several others.

I do have water hemlock in the ditches but am careful to keep them away when I take them to new areas to graze. I also stay with them to make sure they browse where I want plus they won't let me get away from them anyway. The pasture consists of pond dikes with weeds and willows. They do eat last years dead grass and clumps of grass that fall off the mower. When I see them eat the mower clumps I take it away and throw it in the pond because of mold.

I don't know if they have been vaccinated for coccidia. Is there a vaccine for that bacteria?

I have a call into a vet who also owns goats to see if I should get some enterotoxemia antitoxin to keep on hand.

Thanks.

[fishhead]

Originally Posted by goatkid

It sounds like your first goat had either tetanus or listeriosis. With listeriosis, one side of the head will droop and the goat will have a fever. The treatment for this is antibiotics. Folks use either pennicillin or Biomycin for it. We also usually give thiamin in case the problem is goat polio. With tetanus, the treatment is tetanus antitoxin. Goats with tetanus are sensitive to touch and sometimes light and will have seizures when touched. Most animals with tetanus are put down. With your second wether, have you taken his temperature? Is it really hot where you live? If there is no fever, I would treat with probios and sodium bicarb. If he has a fever, I would administer Biomycin and 3-5 cc of thiamin.

Would listerosis make it unable to chew or swallow? That's what really throws me a curve. He didn't seem sensitive to either light or touch but he did have a fever. Aside from being extremely thin and weak and unable to chew he was normal. His appetite was fine even though he couldn't eat.

I haven't taken a temp with the wether who is currently feeling ill yet. If he doesn't come browsing with us tonight I will. They have access to sodium bicarb at all time. We just came through some brutally hot (90-100) weather for about a week. It didn't seem to bother them though because they would lay out in the hot sand instead of in the shade of the shelter.

The wether weighs about 80 pounds. What is the dose and duration of Biomycin?

Thanks.

[Nancy_in_GA]

Originally Posted by fishhead

Would listerosis make it unable to chew or swallow?

Absolutely, and drooling, and staggering. Those were obvious sign of ours with listeriosis. And no matter how much you tried to turn him to lay on another side, he would manage to roll over onto the same side.

Treatment was 1cc penG per 20 lbs, 3 times a day for the first day, then twice a day for a total of at least 7 days. Vet would probably also prescribe something to reduce brain swelling (dexamethasone?)

Nancy

[Sweet Goats]

Boy, I am sorry to hear about all this. I feel really bad that you are new to goats and all this is happening.
I have no idea, so there for all I can do is pray for you and the little ones.

[fishhead]

Originally Posted by Nancy_in_GA

Absolutely, and drooling, and staggering. Those were obvious sign of ours with listeriosis. And no matter how much you tried to turn him to lay on another side, he would manage to roll over onto the same side.

Treatment was 1cc penG per 20 lbs, 3 times a day for the first day, then twice a day for a total of at least 7 days. Vet would probably also prescribe something to reduce brain swelling (dexamethasone?)

Nancy

I did some searching and "slack jaw" is one of the conditions listed. I'm assuming that means unable to close or chew. He was very hungry towards the end. That's a contradiction but he was probably starving at that point. It sounds like I might have not lost him if I had keep injecting longer.

I'd better keep a close eye on the wether that isn't feeling well now. They spill a lot of grain by knocking it out of the trough and bumping the scoop as I'm filling it. That has always bothered be because of the potential for the corn and oats to mold. Fortunately it hasn't rained for a long time so mold shouldn't be a problem and now my geese are visiting the feeding area so should start picking up the spill grain.

Thanks.

[fishhead]

Originally Posted by Nancy_in_GA

Absolutely, and drooling, and staggering. Those were obvious sign of ours with listeriosis. And no matter how much you tried to turn him to lay on another side, he would manage to roll over onto the same side.

Treatment was 1cc penG per 20 lbs, 3 times a day for the first day, then twice a day for a total of at least 7 days. Vet would probably also prescribe something to reduce brain swelling (dexamethasone?)

Nancy

I forgot to mention that I have been strongly cautioned to NOT use dexamethasone because it stops the immune system and to instead use Banamine.

[Nancy_in_GA]

I'm sure you are right about the Banamine rather than the Dex. I shouldn't have speculated like that. Just remembered that reducing brain swelling was important, too.

We lost a 1yo wether to listeriosis a year ago, and I read everything I could find on it for weeks afterwards.

The bacteria is everywhere, in the soil, can be in goats' systems at sub clinical amounts. Some goats can be carriers but not be sick. One article even said listeriosis is more common in 1yo goats, because that's when they cut there first permanent teeth and there's a greater chance of infection through the gums. Some goats can originally get sick with something else, and then the listeria becomes opportunistic.

We never did figure it out for sure, but I think our wether also had circulation problems. He always looked "puffy" and acted sluggish compared to the other goats from the time we got him at 4mos. It definitely wasn't from the feed or hay, here.

Don't beat yourself up over it. I did, and it didn't help anything. It is very difficult to pull them out of it, and they may end up with permanent brain damage, if they survive.

And it may be something entirely different with the other wether.

I'm so sorry you lost him. I know how it feels.

Nancy

[fishhead]

Thanks for all the help.

I watched the wether a lot last night. He urinated and defecated after jumping down from the shelter roof. The pellets were encased in mucus but otherwise looked normal. At first he stayed by the shelter but after about 20 minutes he slowly walked over to the herd and picked at some browse. Then he laid down for a while. The herd moved so he slowly walked over and to my surprise started eating and eating and eating. At that point I reversed my decision to give him antibiotics. I did wrestle some probiotics in him but skipped the reference temperature check because he was so lively I didn't want to risk injuring him.

This morning he looks better and his pellets look normal. He did urinate way more than I've ever seen a goat do but it looks like he drank a bunch of the electolytes I left on top of the shelter for him so that may explain the quantity.

I've got my fingers crossed because I don't want to lose him and I don't want to wrestle with him every day for 7 days especially once he starts feeling normal. Bottle babies are so much nicer to work with even when they untie my shoes and make me stop every 10 feet.

[Bearfootfarm]

The "T" in CD&T is a tetanus vaccine. When banding you need to give them a dose of Tetanus antitoxin also. Especially if youve had horses in the same areas at any time The CD&T vaccine can take 2 weeks to provide immunity while thee antitoxin effect is immediate http://www.sheep101.info/201/dockcastrate.html

[fishhead]

The wether seems to have recovered except for a snotty nose. I'm glad I didn't start antibiotics.

[fishhead]

Well he's not feeling well again and sound congested. I wrestled some more probiotics into him and am headed out to give him some electrolytes.

He is still eating but not the normal amount and he laid down which is a bit unusual.

How can I tell the difference between a cold (untreatable virus) versus a bacterial (treatable bacteria) congestion?

Thanks.

[trob1]

How can I tell the difference between a cold (untreatable virus) versus a bacterial (treatable bacteria) congestion?


Well take his temp and see if he has a fever. alot of people are having trouble with phumonia right now with the heat and humidity. What is your weather been like where you are? Dont wait too long trying to make your mind up and lose him.

[fishhead]

Originally Posted by trob1

How can I tell the difference between a cold (untreatable virus) versus a bacterial (treatable bacteria) congestion?


Well take his temp and see if he has a fever. alot of people are having trouble with phumonia right now with the heat and humidity. What is your weather been like where you are? Dont wait too long trying to make your mind up and lose him.

We just went through a week over very hot (90-100) weather and it's back again.

I'll see if I can grab him for a temp check.

Does an elevated temp and congestion always indicate bacteria or can it mean influenza?

Thanks.