is this what the ligaments are?

famer_manda · #1 04/17/06, 08:15 AM

I spent most of my weekend trying to make sure I figured out the ligaments. This whole time I had been thinking it would be something like a line... because when I think of ligaments, I think of stretching. But I am wrong arent I? Is it kind of like a mass? Like if you pinch an area where you have muscle but its relaxed? so you can pinch it and it has a mass to it but its not really a line? but just a mass of something lol.

IS that what the ligaments are and when that goes mooshy and then you can't feel it anymore, make the ligaments "gone"? Otherwise I just cannot find anything. I can just feel that area under teh tail which prevents me from being able to totally grabbing around the tail area. I had felt this area before but I had only found something right at the point where the tail connected and it was firmer.. This weekend the whole 1 1/2 inch area had the same mooshy feeling to it. But there was something still there so if it was the ligaments they would be loose but not gone.

Am i making sense? did I figure out the ligaments?

Amanda

ihedrick · #2 04/17/06, 08:25 AM

From my limited experience you feel the ligaments above the tail. There are two of them; one on each side of the back bone. They run along side the back bone and are like stretchy cords. Normally, on my does, they feel about the size of a pencil width. When they are close to delivering; they disapear. You don't have to press very hard to find them; same pressure like you are checking your pulse. If they are close to deliveringyou may have to press a litttle more, but not much.

famer_manda · #3 04/17/06, 08:29 AM

OOOOOOOH OOOOOOOOOOOH OOOOOOOOOOOOOH OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH ON THE TAIL!!!!!!! *slaps head* well that changes everything LOL. What part of the tail are they ?? right where it connects to the body??

ihedrick · #4 04/17/06, 08:34 AM

On my girls, I can feel them anywhere from the point where the tail connects to the body up along the back bone about 5 inches. The closer to the head ya go, the harder it is to feel them. Try placing your hand, fingers pointing toward the tail, on the back. Spread your fingers over the back bone area. Moving just your fingers, you should be able to feel little cords, about the size of pencils. Once you feel it, you'll know. Also, if you are checking on a doe that is close to delivering; you may want to check a doe that isn't. That way if the ligaments are gone on the one doe you won't be searching in vain!

famer_manda · #5 04/17/06, 08:43 AM

I have a nonpregnant goat to also check but she doesn't like me touching her so its hard to compare but I will try.

Now with my pregnant one, she has only been lifting her tail about half way up the majority of the time lately though sometimes it still goes all the way up. She used to have it all the way up all the time when we got her. She also lets it hang down a lot more lately. Can this be any indication in regards to the ligaments softening?

Julia · #6 04/17/06, 11:37 AM

The ligaments are on the rump, on either side of the spine. You don't see them when they relax just before kidding, but the flesh falls away from the spine on both sides, leaving hollows that are quite obvious to the eye.

famer_manda · #7 04/17/06, 12:02 PM

I have seen some hollowed looking areas but it must be something else because they have been that way awhile. i notice her back seems higher today though and she isn't lifting her tail like she used to

**mygoat** · #8 04/17/06, 01:54 PM

If I remember correctly, it is www.fiascofarm.com that has some excellent shots of a goat a few days before kidding and an hour before kidding. Shows before/after shots of the ligaments. I just love that site. I'll see if I can find the exact link...

ETA : http://www.fiascofarm.com/goats/pren...html#ligaments

Good pics of how to find them and what to look for...

famer_manda · #9 04/17/06, 02:18 PM

Do they pant when they are in labor? or at least breath harder? or is it all a matter of stretching and their tail moving?

famer_manda · #10 04/17/06, 04:56 PM

I noticed there is an area on my pregnant one that is soft...and on the nonpregnant one it is firm.. but its like an area the size of a piece of gum and maybe a little wider.. it starts near the base of the tail ( where it connects to the hip looking area that is higher right now) and comes down.

**mygoat** · #11 04/17/06, 05:01 PM

did you look at the website? compare your doe... Not all are the same but it shows how to feel for ligaments.

Freeholder · #12 04/17/06, 06:15 PM

They do pant.

The first few times you have a doe kidding are nerve-wracking, but then you get a feel for it and it gets easier. You are always learning new things, though. I've had goats for a long time, and Friday I got to deal with my first breech birth. When I saw the back half of baby no.3 hanging out and struggling, I grabbed his feet and pulled -- he was drowning. Had to take him by the back feet and sling him around in a circle and let centrifugal force get the fluid out of his lungs. Did that three or four times before he was really breathing okay, but he's fine now, the largest of the three. The thing is, I'd only read about doing that (slinging them around in a circle to get the fluid out); now I've done it and know it works!

You hopefully won't have to deal with any difficult births, though -- I haven't had all that many of them.

Kathleen

famer_manda · #13 04/17/06, 07:45 PM

I looked at those pictures but in that spot on my goat, i feel like im just feeling the insides of the hip bone and I can only feel the bone. i dont feel anything else. She was already sunken in there when I got her. LOL.. But a little higher and closer to the tail bone, I think I feel a difference between her and my non pregnant goat. IT might be the right area and im just expecting something down farther. It just isn't what I expect i guess.. On my pregnant one it is mooshier but still there. It feels firmer if she is standing or trying to get away from me than when I check the area when shes laying down for me.

famer_manda · #14 04/17/06, 07:47 PM

my goat is still panting if she is laying down otherwise im not noticing it. Can they be in labor a long time? like is she waiting for me to go to bed and shes going to deliver without me?

famer_manda · #15 04/17/06, 07:48 PM

she was panting this morning when it was 50 degrees... panted harder hehe around 70 and now its 60 but she does it about every 2 minutes and the other goat only started breathing harder when it got over 70, otherwise shes normal so I dont think its heat related but.... i dont see any baby goats or anything so maybe im hopeless

homebirtha · #16 04/17/06, 08:04 PM

I think you are feeling the ligaments. They are really hard and do feel almost like a bone, but they're long and skinny. I mean really, they feel like a pencil underneath the skin. Can you take a picture of her. If her tail is down, then I don't think it's time yet. The tail will kind of rise up when she's close. The fiasofarm site's pictures are the best ones I've seen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by famer_manda

I looked at those pictures but in that spot on my goat, i feel like im just feeling the insides of the hip bone and I can only feel the bone. i dont feel anything else. She was already sunken in there when I got her. LOL.. But a little higher and closer to the tail bone, I think I feel a difference between her and my non pregnant goat. IT might be the right area and im just expecting something down farther. It just isn't what I expect i guess.. On my pregnant one it is mooshier but still there. It feels firmer if she is standing or trying to get away from me than when I check the area when shes laying down for me.

famer_manda · #17 04/17/06, 08:07 PM

could i be mistaking it for bone?? I think I am feeling the rim of a hip bone and therefore I keep looking elsewhere.. Is it about 4-5 inches long in a pygmy goat?

TWOGOATS · #18 04/17/06, 09:56 PM

what is her duedate?
did you shear/trim her back end (ie, the udder, hocks, and thereabouts)?

famer_manda · #19 04/18/06, 08:42 AM

I do not have a due date for her because I bought her pregnant and the guy allowed the males and females to run tog ether. He

I gotta go.. the goats are fighting.... the pregnant one wont let the other one into the shed...

Yes I trimmed the hair in back so I could watch the udder changes hehe...I am hoping this tussle outside is because shes laboring andwants to be alone!

famer_manda · #20 04/18/06, 08:48 AM

well that was nothing that I could see.. That one part I am just not comfortable calling it a ligament because I am fairly sure its just the bone.. but other than that, I just can't find anything. I guess I give up on the ligaments. I will just have to wait until I see a baby coming out to know for sure that shes in labor :P