Alfalfa Pellets

Jillis · #1 04/11/06, 07:00 AM

At what point should you feed alfalfa pellets to goats? And what proportion of their feed mix should they be?
We can't get alfalfa hay up here...at least I haven't found it yet...
I was told that goats need a certain proportion of alfalfa, expecially pregnant does...but how much?
Thanks in advance!

Delinda · #2 04/11/06, 07:21 AM

Where I live in Tn. we really can't get alfalfa so I have never feed it to mine and they do great without it. I just feed a really good grass hay with free choice minerals and a good goat feed. My goats would not eat the alfalfa pellets, they are very hard. I even tried crunching them and they still did not want them.

homebirtha · #3 04/11/06, 08:32 AM

We give our kids alfalfa pellets starting at a few weeks old to nibble on.

The milkers get about 3 lbs. per doe, but everyone's goes in one big feed trough together, so some get more, some get less. I would like to do free-choice, but it gets too pricey. The basic idea is that the pellets supplement or replace your hay use, so think of treating like you would hay. Free choice would be ideal (working up to that SLOWLY, of course).

We don't give it on the milkstand, that's where they get their grain and BOSS.

moonspinner · #4 04/11/06, 10:29 AM

A few years back when I was feeding grass hay and grain (along with summer pasture) I found I was getting some weak kids with leg problems. I started supplementing with alfalfa pellets and what an improvement. So in my case anyway, the pregnant does were not getting enough calcium on just the grass hay. Everyone's area is different, everyone's management/diet is different so you have to experiment until you hit the right combination for best maintanence of your goats. All my goats love the pellets.

Tango · #5 04/11/06, 10:38 AM

I'd always given alfalfa pellets or alfalfa hay throughout pregnancy and lactation when I could afford it but where I live now it is expensive and I've so much acreage available for the livestock. I've cut it out except for the last month of pregnancy and first month of lactation for the dairy goats. I mix it 50%/50% with goat pellets. As I learn about my soil and vegetation, I may try seeding it in my pasture if I can afford it.

pookshollow · #6 04/11/06, 10:58 AM

That must be another of those things you can only get in the States, along with cattle panels.

I can buy hay cubes, alfalfa or alfalfa/timothy for horses. They need to be soaked in water because they are quite large and very hard. They aren't cheap. The only other alfalfa pellets up here are made for rabbits, very small.

Fortunately, alfalfa hay is easy to get around here.

susanne · #7 04/11/06, 12:01 PM

i feed alfa pellets free choice as much as they want to eat.kids, does and bucks.

TexCountryWoman · #8 04/11/06, 04:19 PM

Free choice alfalfa pellets year round to does, bucks and kids. I might retrict the bucks if they look fat. No grain to bucks ever.

The little bitty alfalfa pellets that look like rabbit food is the preffered type IMO. I have accidently got alfalfa CUBEs and that is what i think some of you are talking about when you say they are too hard for the goats to eat. They are awul! My goats generally eat about 3 lbs each of the little alfalfa pellets in addition to about 1/2lb to 2 lb of oats (depending on the age of the goat) and a handful of BOSS (black oil sunflower seeds), loose goat minerals and baking soda. Also grass hay and some browse. They don't get anykind of goat chow at all or any kind of sweetfeed at all...all does had triplets this year and are giving lots of milk.

homebirtha · #9 04/11/06, 07:58 PM

Our alfalfa pellets are pretty much the same as you'd see in rabbit feed. They're about the diameter of a pencil and maybe 1/2" to 1" long. Alfalfa hay is pricey here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pookshollow

That must be another of those things you can only get in the States, along with cattle panels.

I can buy hay cubes, alfalfa or alfalfa/timothy for horses. They need to be soaked in water because they are quite large and very hard. They aren't cheap. The only other alfalfa pellets up here are made for rabbits, very small.

Fortunately, alfalfa hay is easy to get around here.

Jillis · #10 04/12/06, 06:51 AM

Thanks for all the replies.
I give a mix that is a proportion of 1 1/2 scoops Sweet Goat 18, 1/2 scoop cracked corn, 1/2 scoop BOSS, and 1 1/2 scoops oats, either rolled or prime, depending on what I have. I would like to use the alfalfa pellets as part of this mix, w/o upping the amount of grain I give per goat.

What would be the best proportion to give? My scoop is a 16 oz. plastic container. I mix this amount in three separate troughs and feed 3 pregnant adult and 10 1/3-adult-sized goats with it. The four dairy babies get a baby grain/oatmeal mix with the above mix being gradually mixed into it in greater proportions and my milking ND doe gets her own plate in her stall to be sure she gets at least 3 lbs. of mix a day.

They get Sweetlix, Kelp powder and very good quality hay free choice. They are looking good!

BrahmaMama · #11 04/12/06, 07:18 AM

I have to ask - What is BOSS please?

homebirtha · #12 04/12/06, 09:00 AM

So you want to replace some of what you're feeding in the grain mix with alfalfa? I don't think it really works that way. Basically, you would start adding alfalfa, and reducing the hay, not the grain necessarily. The alfalfa gives them the protein and the calcium they need to milk well. The grain just gives them the extra calories they need while milking.

I can only tell you what we did. We wanted to eliminate the sweet feed entirely and go to whole grains. So if it were me, I'd start giving them alfalfa pellets separately, either after their grain, or later in the day. Build up slowly on the alfalfa. Then after they were up to a pound or two each, I'd start making the grain change. Start upping the oats and reducing the sweet feed until it's all oats. Or you can add some barley. We do half oats, half barley, with a little topdress of Calf Manna and BOSS. But YMMV.

Oh, and Brahmamana, BOSS is Black Oil Sunflower Seeds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jillis

Thanks for all the replies.
I give a mix that is a proportion of 1 1/2 scoops Sweet Goat 18, 1/2 scoop cracked corn, 1/2 scoop BOSS, and 1 1/2 scoops oats, either rolled or prime, depending on what I have. I would like to use the alfalfa pellets as part of this mix, w/o upping the amount of grain I give per goat.

Jillis · #13 04/12/06, 11:27 AM

I wasn't sure if the alfalfa pellets were to replace part of the grain or part of the hay ration, or just, as you said, to up the calcium and protein for the pg and nursing or milking moms.

Why did you phase out the sweet feed? I've heard a lot of people say that by now and I am wondering why?

Also, what is YMMV? Was there supposed to be an "S" on the end. I figured it meant: You Must Move Very, with the Slowly missing?

If my deductive reasoning is faulty, please advise!

Thanks for continuing to reply!

TexCountryWoman · #14 04/12/06, 11:56 AM

duplicate

TexCountryWoman · #15 04/12/06, 11:59 AM

This is how i feed:

I make sure tummys are full with hay, I don't like to put feed on an empty stomach. I try to have alfalfa pellets out in a pan free-choice at all times, separate from the grain pan. I like them to eat the alfalfa prior to eating grain, that way their stomachs are already full or hay and they are satisfied with alfalfa pellets......then at feeding times, twice a day, whether it is on the milkstand or in their pens, they get their grain mix. This is separate from their alfalfa, which as stated above, is always out there in another pan. My grain mix is oats and BOSS (black oil sunflower seeds). I can't get barley here so i don't feed it. I use NO sweetfeed or any type of premixed goat feed, just whole oats and BOSS, my goats do great. They get their measured ration of my grain mix. Four or five parts oats to one part BOSS. I do not use corn because it brings down the protein level. I stand out there and make sure the dominant goats don't get more than their share and that the lesser goats get their share. I am VERY particular about this. I even change my penning arangements if i see a low goat on the totem pole starting to lose weight from not getting her share. I will skip a grain feeding next time if i even suspect one goat as indulged in more than her share of grain. I will make sure baking soda is fresh if there is even a slight likelyhood that one goat has over indulged by even a little on the grain. Even if it is dark and raining I will run to the house and get fresh baking soda, i am very picky about this.

My goats get limited amounts of grain twice a day. growing does get 1/2 pound twice a day. Milkers get 1 to 2 pounds twice a day, preganant does get 3/4 pounds twice a day the last 100 days of pregancy or thereabouts. However this verys per each individual goat, taylored to there needs and is hard to explain, alot goes by my gut and is adjusted slowly.

homebirtha · #16 04/12/06, 09:36 PM

The pellets are in place of alfalfa hay. I guess the alfalfa hay would be the best thing to feed, as in the least processed. But the alfalfa pellets are a great alternative to the hay. So, in that way, it's replacing the hay. But it's just an all-around great things for dairy animals. It gives them most of what they need without a lot of extra filler or empty calories.

We got rid of sweet feed for a few reasons. One, I read a lot on here and other dairy goat boards about molasses not being good for rumens. It's too acidic, which is why they always need baking soda. Sweet feed is also mostly "grain byproducts" which is all the crappy stuff left over after they remove the usable stuff. It's the chaff and garbage that they can't use in whole grains. Also, just like whole grains are better for us then more highly processed grains, I figured same thing goes for goats. The final reason was price. Plain oats and barley were much cheaper then the dairy goat pellets we were feeding.

Oh, and YMMV is Your Mileage May Vary. :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jillis

I wasn't sure if the alfalfa pellets were to replace part of the grain or part of the hay ration, or just, as you said, to up the calcium and protein for the pg and nursing or milking moms.

Why did you phase out the sweet feed? I've heard a lot of people say that by now and I am wondering why?

Also, what is YMMV? Was there supposed to be an "S" on the end. I figured it meant: You Must Move Very, with the Slowly missing?

If my deductive reasoning is faulty, please advise!

Thanks for continuing to reply!

Jillis · #17 04/13/06, 06:29 AM

The organic goat lady I met, who is mentoring me somewhat (the one who makes prganic artisan cheeses aged in a cave and is on the Cheese Council Board) mixes her own organic grains. She doesn't use any sweet feed but does use alfalfa pellets, I don't know if she puts them in the mix because she has 2 silos and she said one was for alfalfa pellets...she grows her own organic hay on her land.

I know she adds organic molasses to the mix and I will ask her about what you said, which I have heard as well---but only on this board. If it makes the rumen acidic, why do people say to give a goat who has just delivered her kids some molasses in a bucket of warm water? I am not challanging your statement, I just want to understand...I gave this to our ND when she gave birth and she promptly sucked down almost an entire 2 gallon bucket in about one sitting! I was a little astounded, but remembered guzzling cup after cup of apple juice after giving birth to my son and my thirst not being "satisfied"---gave me some wicked bad diarrhea later!

I liked the sound of your mix, TexCountryWoman, but I think my goats would be heartbroken if I removed the cracked corn from their mix! Those little weasels have eyes on the ends of their tongue and they root the cracked corn out first and vacuum it up completely before devouring the rest!

As to the amounts...Laini...the organic cheese lady...keeps these milk records, she weighs the amount of milk of each doe at each milking and records the amount of grain each gets and she tailors the amount of grain each goat gets by the amount of milk she gets from each one...too little OR too much and their milk falls off. I
t seems that most of her Alpines who are milking get between 3 to 4 lbs. of grain a day! I thought that was a lot. But her goats are NOT fat! She used to judge goats and she says that they have this number system from 1 to 5 to judge fatness and and her goats are the optimum---a three. I think mine are fatter, they are about a 3 1/3 to a 4. I only have a few that might be called "3"s from how she explained it to me...

Anyhow, I am trying to learn as much as I can about good management of my herd! I really appreciate all the input I get from more experienced people on this board.

Tango · #18 04/13/06, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jillis

Anyhow, I am trying to learn as much as I can about good management of my herd! I really appreciate all the input I get from more experienced people on this board.

I'm not one of those with more experience. I've been raising goats for three years and have had only 9 freshenings til now. I've also had one high producing Alpine get very sick on me with hypocalcemia and with milk fever so nutrition is something I've given a lot of attention to online, in books, and in my community of goat keepers locally. Each year I've changed and adapted as I learn. I've noticed that even the more experienced herd keepers change their methods and that opinions and personal experience with certain methods vary considerably. Location dictates some methods, breeds and specific lineages warrant other methods, whether one milks and how much one milks calls for certain methods, and methods of keeping (pen, free-range, small browsing area) call for other methods entirley, and even keepers' emtional states dictate some methods. You will get good guidelines from others but your herd will let you know what is best. All you have to do is observe with sensitivity once you have the basics down. There are probably several combinations of diet that will do very well for any one herd.

homebirtha · #19 04/13/06, 08:47 AM

Wow, she sounds like a great mentor. Does she share her cheese secrets with you? I am still very cheese-challeneged. lol.

One reason people use molasses in the grain mix is to hold everything together and keep the dust down. Another reason is it makes it more palatable, because it's sweet. It's kind of like the difference between plain oatmeal and Fruit Loops. Yeah, the Fruit Loops taste better, but which is healthier. Of course, a little molasses to hold it together and sweeten it a little is more like, I dunno, Kashi Cinnamon Harvest. Still pretty good for you, and more palatable. But if they'll eat the grain without the molasses, all the better.

I give mine molasses in their water after birth too. It's a quick way to build their energy back up after a really tiring physical effort. Kind of like a half gallon of orange juice. But again, it's not something you'd want to have as your main meal every day. Think of it this way, molasses is a sugar. Even though it's less processed then straight, white sugar, it's still a sugar. So the less of it, the better. Unless they need a quick blood-sugar boost, then it could be just the thing.

And ITA with Tango. It's great to gather all this information. And I've found the internet to have more up-to-date information then almost all of the books we've bought, what our vet says, and what our "mentor" thinks. But I pull information from all those sources, and mix it with what I see in our goats, and make my decisions from there. It sounds like you have a great mentor and that's a huge help, as she lives in your area, and will be dealing with the same issues as you will. Versus someone on the other side of the country that will have different feed available, different parasite levels, different weather, etc. :-)

Jillis · #20 04/13/06, 05:43 PM

Well, the first time I went to see her, she charged me a consulting fee, which was fine. Her time and knowledge are worth something. She was very open about everything, including cheese making. She says the market for goat cheese is very good. She can't keep up with the demand, most cheese makers can't, except maybe the big companies.
I am not interested in making the types of cheese she makes. I want to make primarily Mediterranean type cheeses, and some soft and herbed cheeses. I also want to make soap and lotion...at least the soap to start.
Since then she doesn't charge me anything. Now I am "in the loop."

Tango, these thoughts of yours sum up my MO as well:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tango

You will get good guidelines from others but your herd will let you know what is best. All you have to do is observe with sensitivity once you have the basics down. There are probably several combinations of diet that will do very well for any one herd.