Help!! Scours??

BlessedMom · #1 04/08/06, 07:28 PM

I'm having an issue with two of my bucks. I have a Nubian buck, Boer buck and Nubian wether all together right now.
They have been just fine. They were fine last night. This morning the two bucks started with scours to the likes I have never seen!
They are a mess, it is everywhere. Now, this morning they did start on a grain that they have eaten before with no problems.
The feed store is not able to get what we were getting so we had to switch back. Mind you, only the bucks got the scours, I'm not convinced it was the food.
I gave them each 25cc of Pepto this morning. The Nubian is still scouring pretty bad, it's just running right out of him. I have seen both of them eating on the alfalfa (took any grain away for now) and drinking water.
My Boer is straining to try to poop. He hunches his back way up and strains. What is coming out is a clear liquidy substance whereas the Nubian is still muddy brown.
Is there anything else I can do for them? The Nubian is 1 1/2 and the Boer just turned 1.

Please help! I'm afraid I'm going to lose both of them. They were a huge investment for me as they are both purebred and registered! Plus they are my babies!

Oh yes, I forgot to say... I do vaccinate and worm. They had their annual CD/T and also were wormed 14 days ago along with all of our other goats.

Thanks,
Lori

**mygoat** · #2 04/08/06, 08:03 PM

My goodness, sounds as if you have a large problem on your hands! I would call my vet immediately! Maybe drench with an electrolyte solution...

BlessedMom · #3 04/08/06, 09:23 PM

Well I talked with another breeder. We both think that they overate on the new grain. So...I took away the grain immediately. They have alfalfa and plenty of water. I have 25cc of Pepto about 11 a.m. today. She just brought me some Dimethicone, I gave them each that and also drenched them with clear water and 5cc each of Probios. I figured it couldn't hurt.
They are happily muching on alfalfa as we speak and getting ready to bed down for the night. I saw the Boer go over and drink quite a bit of water before I came in. The Nubian didn't yet, but I hope he will. He's upset with me for shoving a pill down his throat in front of his buddies. Guys..I tell ya.
Anyhow..I'll be checking on them throughout the night. Along with our new quarantined doe and a doe that is expecting probably triples that was due yesterday. Can you say no sleep???

homebirtha · #4 04/08/06, 09:32 PM

Are these adult goats or kids? If they're kids, then I would think cocci. Are you sure your wormer is working? i.e. Do you follow up with fecals?

Vit. B complex is good for a goat who is off. Probios most definitely. Keep giving it to them until they are completely recovered and then a few days extra for good measure. Do you keep out baking soda?

And definitely no more grain. Only hay until they are recovered.

fricknfarm · #5 04/08/06, 11:28 PM

I read somewhere that too much alfalfa is bad for a goat. I think it was here
http://www.goatwisdom.com/index.html#topics
or maybe somewhere this links to
Keep the boys hydrated.
Give them hay without alfalfa if possible and no grain.
Good luck, hope they're okay

BlessedMom · #6 04/09/06, 01:09 AM

well they seem to be calming down. I'll keep an eye on them closely now.
The vet recommended alfalfa, we only have alfalfa and straw..so it's alfalfa.
We also gave them some pine boughs. The loved them.
Saw both drink water tonight. They are all bedded down for the night.
The consensus says they overate. Go figure. I have never had a male do that before!

stacygoats · #7 04/09/06, 08:03 AM

I wonder if they just got to much of the fresh spring grass and buds? I've got a couple that I'm having to wean onto the big pasture, because they've been in small pens with really no access to grazing/browse. It still surprises what a little change in diet can do to a goats digestive system.

BlessedMom · #8 04/09/06, 08:27 AM

I actually think it was the grain. We free choice feed them.
One breeder friend was here the other day and saw that and made mention if I ever have problems with them overeating. Never. I leave the goat chow out there along with alfalfa. Well they LOVE this new grain. And well I think they chowed down so hard between the switch over and the amount they probably ate....well that really messed them up! Geesh..poor guys. And it is still cold and wet here. But I will have to try to clean their butts up today when it get daylight. It's not quite light out yet this morning. I hate that here it is almost 6:30 in the morning and it's pretty much dark outside!!

Wendy · #9 04/09/06, 09:46 AM

I would caution you on even feeding grain to your males. You may end up with urinary calculi & lose them to that. I grain my males maybe a handful a day as a treat. They do not need it unless they are getting into condition for breeding or back into condition after breeding. Males should never have grain in front of them all the time. You are just asking for problems there.

BlessedMom · #10 04/09/06, 05:15 PM

Thanks for the advice on the grain. I think I will take it away from them and save it for the wethers we are growing for 4H.
Do you know if the rule for grain is the same for Nubians and Boers? I had several breeders tell me that the Boers need 2 cups a day. The feed has something in it that prevents the calculi if that makes a difference.
They are still sick today. I'm giving them more dimethicone and pepto. They are eating alfalfa, fir boughs and drinking...but they still have the runs.
Poor guys.

I forgot to say, the two that are ill are bucks. The one that didn't get sick is a wether!

Lori

homebirtha · #11 04/10/06, 09:47 AM

How old are they?

I would consider treating for cocci and give CD antitoxin since they're still sick. The stress from the overeating and diarhea can let the cocci and entero take hold.

fricknfarm · #12 04/10/06, 11:27 AM

Check that website, I think fir boughs might be a problem. I have cedar here and saw a goat eat some cones from it. He was the only one interested in the cedar. i watched him. sure enough he was sick the next day. He never ate them again. All the goats NIBBLE at the cedar and rub on it, I think it might be goat homeopathic medicine lol. BUT they never eat it to any degree. just a couple of nibbles.

BlessedMom · #13 04/10/06, 02:02 PM

Actually, the vet said that the Douglas fir is great for their tummies. Not cedar though.
Dont' know what the difference is. They are much better today.
My Boer buck is 1 year old and the Nubian buck is 1 1/2 years. The wether that is with them is 8 months old, he didn't get the scours, eats the same stuff.
I'm keeping up with the DiMethicone and Probios. Hay only with the douglas firs stuff.
Hopefully they will keep improving. Vet said after they are back to normal I can give 1 cup of grain each daily for a week. Then slowly increase to 2 cups. I do use the stuff that has ammnia something or other for the urinary calculi. They are coming out of a rough wet winter and the vet seems to think they need to bulk up a bit. We'll see how it goes.

homebirtha · #14 04/10/06, 02:05 PM

I don't know about the boer, but I wouldn't give any grain to a dairy buck, and certainly NONE to a wether. They'll do much better on just hay and maybe some alfalfa pellets. But the grain will just make them fat and cost you money.

BlessedMom · #15 04/10/06, 03:32 PM

Well the whether is on Boer goat grower, um..we are fattening him up I guess you could say. He was a late bloomer..and now he's a blooming! We are getting ready to have a goat roast, he's the honored guest.

Our 4H wethers are given free choice grain and alfalfa to get them to grow to about 100 lbs. at fair.

moonspinner · #16 04/10/06, 06:03 PM

I've always read that evergreens are actually good for diarrhea and goats will seek it out if they have that problem. Overeating grain in my experience will bring on digestive ills quickly. At their age cocci wouldn't be my first thought, though not impossible. Once my bucks turn a year no grain for them, though I know keepers who do grain boys regularly without problem. My growing wethers only get a bit too until they mature and then no grain.

fricknfarm · #17 04/10/06, 09:12 PM

this is a great website for goat answers
http://www.goatwisdom.com/ch6poisons...us_plants.html
click main page for the menu for site