kidding problem may be an emergency

3SistersFarm · #1 03/24/06, 11:26 PM

I'm writing here first before I go to goat911.
my 2year old, NG Dwarf, first time she's has kidded fo and is stuck with the clear smooth sack out of her. She's been screaming her lungs out a couple of hours at the beginning since 11 or 12 today but I didn't worry too much since it was her first birth but then about 5 this evening I was checking her gina to see any thing was stuck and I barely touched her gina and the sack came bursting out of her. She hasn'tappeared to in anymore pain and is eating and drinking. The sack seems to be drying out now and she's isn't having contractions anymore. She's still very preg.
some info : she was born March 04, we wormed her with "Albendazol" from the vet around 12-20-05. We wasn't sure she was breed when we bought her and didn't even think about it when I gave her the worming med. The lady we bought her from said if she is it will be dueMarch 9th to the 24th.
This is my 2nd goat birth and the 1st one went very smooth. This little gal is stressed but not screaming like she was earlier.
I can't do anything with sack, I thought about putting it back in with my surgical gloves but it won't go back in and I don't want to pull it without someone telling me to.
ANy advice would be greatly appreicated this evening.
oh thank you,
I'll write again if I go to the 911 site

Tee

3SistersFarm · #2 03/25/06, 12:01 AM

I called my vet, if I can't pull the baby out then I have to take her in' and he said it's probably dead he.
wish me luck, I'm going in.
Tee

chamoisee · #3 03/25/06, 12:48 AM

!!! Find two feet and hopefully a head, and pull that kid out! If it's presenting rearwards, then pull it that way.

3SistersFarm · #4 03/25/06, 05:25 AM

It's 5am and I just got back from the vet. He couldn't pull out the kids either. He did a C-section, 3 boys and they were all alive, one may not make it, doc was surprised he was alive at all. One of the boys was really huge and blocked everybody else.
What a night. the Mamma may have strained herself and damaged her bladder. I should now in a few days if shes urinating in her body then I probably have to put her down.
We just started goats and they've giving us nothing but boys. We may not be cut out for goats if we can only get boys. dang it.
My crisis is over, thanks all. sorry for typos, it's early and i'm tired---------------------------------------------
Tee

SHELBY · #5 03/25/06, 06:09 AM

Good luck to you ...

Hopefully everyone will be fine with no problems at all.

Teacupliz · #6 03/25/06, 07:52 AM

Do you ahve all Nigerians? What buck did you breed to? Was he large? How much grain did you feed? Maybe get a larger dairy breed. But my Nigerians kids so easy.. Don't give up on one year.. Keep your head up and kow many old time goat breeders have times like this too..

Teacupliz

moonspinner · #7 03/25/06, 08:30 AM

A lot of factors might be going on here. How large is the doe, is she deep-bodied or not, was she bred to a large buck. A first freshener trying to deliver three males, one particularly large, certainly didn't help. I see a lot of keepers over-graining their pregnant girls and having all sorts of troubles come kidding time. I also exercise my goats a lot during pregnancy. But all that said, some does just have kidding problems. I have one doe who every year I have to go in and re-position the first kid and pull it. I'm so sorry you had to go through this and am pulling for all to make it.

goatmarm · #8 03/25/06, 08:37 AM

I hope your doe will be o.k. It is so traumatic when labors don't go smoothly. The first time one of my girl's kidded she screamed so loud, and the baby was stuck. I did manage to pull the slippery bugger out, alive, but what a scare.
Don't get discouraged form having all bucks this year. Every year is different, and you may get lucky with mostly does next year.

Trisha-MN · #9 03/25/06, 09:26 AM

I'm glad your vet was able to help you. We had a ND doe that had a C-section last year with twin bucks. She'd kidded just fine several times before that and kidded just fine this year after the c-sect (twins but 1 of each this time). Sometimes things just go wrong. As for all bucks, sometimes that happens, we've had several young bucks that seem to throw all buck kids the first year they're used, in fact have that this year too 7 bucks to 1 doe from a yearling buck. One never knows, its like opening presents

3SistersFarm · #10 03/25/06, 09:51 AM

Hi all, thanks for all the kind words. I didn't know to lay off the grain while they are preg. I'm sure I was guilty of overfeeding. I feed grain in the am and pm, I gave quite a bit. I'll know next time.
I don't know who she was breed to, except a ND, I got her and they said she might be preg. I would like to stay with Nigerian Dwarf. I wanted a small goat so we can handle them and are good milkers. We haven't gotten the milking thing down yet so if we can't milk this new doe we may have to rethink our goal.
These NG are pure breeds. If I change breeds I'm going with a much cheaper breed. BTW the NG don't do much for clearing weeds.
The vet said it was a combo of one very big kid and him having his arms open wide that blocked the whole shebang and her first kidding.
The Momma is still in the crate, not doing much, won't have anything to do with the kids either. She's not drinking which is not good. Very traumatized. She was skittish before this, I'm sure this didn't help.
????????? I have the runt indoors with me. The little guy slept on my chest last night, I was surprised he made it thru the night. He's still having trouble standing and staying awake. he doesn't seem to have energy or the strength to stand up. Any advice on the runt? Sugar water or sugar in the colustrum to give him energy. He's so small and weak.
thanks again
Tee

khowellrn · #11 03/25/06, 09:57 AM

I've used nutri-drench to help boost weak animals and it really seems to help. It's usually available at the feed store. Also I think some probios helps get their digestion working good. Keeping him warm and his belly full is about the best you can do, I think.
Good Luck!
Kristi in So. IL

Goat Freak · #12 03/25/06, 11:27 AM

We give our babies, and the mamas, Goat nutri-Drench, it is supposed to help them get their strength up. The phone number on the back is 1-800-658-4016. Good Luck with all of them, adn EXPECIALLY the mama and the runt. See ya. Bye.

3SistersFarm · #13 03/25/06, 02:29 PM

For my runt with no energy,
I can only find the Nutri-Drench on line, dang it I was going to order that too. Anyway, local feedstore, Farm and Fleet, and Rural King does not carry this. Rural King suggested "Bounce Back". I can get that on Monday.
How about electrolytes, I can get that today at F&F.
Even sooner can i use the electolytes that I have for my poultry (says if for poultry on pack) I can give that now, (wouldn't that be great)
Am I doing the bottle feeding right. I bought a newborn baby bottle but the runt doesn't seem to want it. I'm also trying to put the colustrum in a syringe, that seems to get it shot down the throat some (just a little push).
How old can the colustrum be, in the fridge and room temp??
If I can get the mamma to let the stronger bucks (two) milk off her (I"m trying) I may have to use whole milk for the runt, I read that on the forum somewhere, I already bought the prenatal Multivitamn supplement.
The mama is eating and drinking yeah now if she will only pee then everything will be great. That will mean she didn't damage her bladder with all that contractions and is now peeing inside her body. Not good, she;ll have to go to goat heaven if that happen.
Thanks so much, I'm exhausted I can just imagine how exhausted the mama must be. You folks are wonderful.
Tee

lazybee · #14 03/25/06, 08:24 PM

We've always given our does molasses water after kidding and raisins. For the runt, i've given Pedialite and a shot of vitamin B to boost energy until i could get the Nutri-drench. Don't give up on the bottle with the baby. I've had some that we worked with for 2-3 days before they got the hang of it.
Hang in there during this stressful time. We had a rough kidding season this year- our worst in 4 kidding seasons. You're doing great!

witchysharon · #15 03/26/06, 07:30 AM

can i use the electolytes that I have for my poultry

Yes

3SistersFarm · #16 03/26/06, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by witchysharon

can i use the electolytes that I have for my poultry

Yes

Thank you witchysharon, as soon as I read your response I did it. I hope the poulty's electolytes gives the little guy some energy. I can't believe the runt is still hanging in there. He still can't stand long but I think he's getting better, skinny as a bone.
The mama is peeing fine... yea!! Looks like NO bladder damage.. I get to keep her! She's slowly acknowleging the two babies, while I'm mothering the runt.
Everything is working out, the only one I'm concerned about now is the runt...time will tell. I'll try to post some pics just so you can see the size difference in these three. you know watching the C-section was amazing, two of them were in one side of the horn and the monster buck was in the other. Wow, isn't life amazing.
Tee

mpillow · #17 03/26/06, 09:06 AM

I also use a little coffee in the bottle of weak babies...coffee about a tsp and molasses about a tsp in 3oz colostrum/ milk and selenium-E gel on the nip once they are nursing good....

Glad things are working out!!!

witchysharon · #18 03/26/06, 09:36 AM

I bought a newborn baby bottle but the runt doesn't seem to want it

Being the runt he needs lots of milk now, and dosing via syringe is not going to do it. As long as you got some of the colostrum in him, and if you don't milk mom and use her milk, then yes, get whole cows milk from the store. Warm the milk to about 101-103 degrees and also place the nipple in very hot water to soften and warm it. Sometimes putting a little molasses or Karo syrup on the nipple helps, force it in his mouth, squeeze the bottle and dribble some milk so he gets a taste. Rub his rump at the same time. I have even had to kneel over a kid and put the bottle under my chin so they think they are under mom and the bottle is an udder. If you don't have luck with a newborn nipple (is this a human baby bottle/nipple?) try a pritchard nipple.

http://www.neogen.com/7006.htm

they screw on a regular pop bottle, and are similar to mom's teat. You 'might' find them at a feed store or Tractor Supply.

More on bottle feeding

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/feeding.htm#bottle

Once mom gets stronger, you can restrain her and let the runt nurse from her (if she doesn't let him). once he has nursed let the two bigger ones take their turn.

3SistersFarm · #19 03/26/06, 03:17 PM

I thought the runt was going to pull thru this morning, bright eyes and some energy. I took him out to meet his brothers and he loved it, he was fine under the heat lamp so I left him there while I went to Farm and Fleet to get a pritchard nipple and feeding tube and some energy stuff. ---- that F&F they never have anything, they did have the nipple but no feeding tube, that is what the little guy needed the most. I might have been able to save him with a feeding tube. I wish Rural King or Tractor Supply were closer. Anyway when I came back he was away from the light and death in his eyes again. He died in my hands, darn it. He would have made a great excuse for me to have a house goat.
The other bucks are fine and Mamma doing great. slowly letting them nurse her. I this is even possible, I think the other mama doe is repremanding her. the Other mama was biting and making weird noises, like the bucks when they get around a doe in heat,too weird. However it's the working I'm just glad the new mama is doing better with her mothering skills.
crisis is over, thanks for helping me thru it all.

westbrook · #20 03/27/06, 03:50 AM

Maybe someone here can recommend a goat book that shows drawings or illustrations of multipal births and the complications.

If not... "Raising Sheep the Modern Way" by Paula Simmons has several pages of drawings on how many ways a lamb and twins can get stuck. Since goats have three and up to 5 at a time just use your imagination. It is in Chapter 8 - 'Abnormal Lambing positions and how to help', page 106.

Once you see the drawings it all makes sense and makes it easier for you to go in and turn and pull. Just be sure after you go in and everything is settled down, you give a shot of penicillin.

I am sorry this has happened to you on your first time.