Questions about "slab-sided" goats

[Nancy_in_GA]

Would someone have time to take a look at two pictures of our sorriest Nubian and see if you can tell me if she has what's called a "slab sided" conformation?

We don't plan on ever breeding her, so not to worry. She is almost 2yo, a very picky eater, the bottom of the pecking order, and doesn't look really healthy to me, but I'm only basing this on the fact that her stomach/rumen is so much smaller than all our other goats.

I also don't understand the consequences of this. Would a goat with this conformation be unhealthy when it gets older, need a special diet? Or is it just a "good looks" issue?

Side view:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nlyons545...ures/slab2.jpg

Front view:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nlyons545...ures/slab1.jpg

p.s. I'm sorry if the pictures take a long time to load. Can't seem to get the size down and still show good enough quality to see anything.

Thank you for looking,
Nancy

[debitaber]

they look a little thin, feed them alfhafa pellets, mixed in with goat chow, and start out not giving to much at a time, and give good 3d cut alfhafa hay, with one half cup of beet pulp mixed in with the grain, you should see an improvement, and make sure that they are getting water, good clean water, and they should do fine. they are nice size does, just lean.

[Roberts ranch]

nancy,

She looks just a bit thin but other than that looks good. If it is just this one doe your concerned about at feeding time I would seperate her until feeding was over so she could get more debitaber does have a good point but I would seperate her so she can get more especially if she is the bottom of the pecking order and you are that concerned.


Ben
Roberts Ranch

[Teacupliz]

she looks fine to me..why can't seh be bred.
Liz

[debitaber]

she can be bred, she is just a little lean. I would probably put a little wieght on her first, and fill her out some. then breed her. I can't see nothing wrong with her, a few groceries can't take care of.

[Laura Workman]

I don't know. To me, she looks like a two-year-old picky eater that's never kidded. Those ribs look like they'll spring just fine if you breed her and she's carrying babies as well as trying to digest food. It's more the hollow behind the ribs that doesn't look quite right to me. Is there a way you can make sure she's getting enough to eat? I mean, she doesn't look emaciated or anything, but her rumen does look rather empty. Perhaps supplementing her specially with alfalfa pellets and/or beet pulp? (I'm presuming you don't free-feed alfalfa pellets, or she'd never look like that in the first place.)

[AnnaS]

Nancy, looks like your diagnosis is right on- she's narrow in the chest & barrel and lacking in body capacity, aka "slab sided". Her ribs go up and down instead of out to the sides, restricting the amount of forage she can take in. The narrow chest means she has less heart/lung capacity.

She shouldn't need a special diet- although if she is last on the pecking order, you might need to feed her seperately so she gets something in her.
Does often get wider and deeper in the barrel as they mature, so she might be a very different girl in a couple of years.
It is a functional problem because she 1) can't take in enough feed to produce much milk and 2) can't circulate blood as efficently which is essential to milk production. In addition, the narrow chest & reduced lung capacity means she will get sicker and get more permanent lung damage from pneumonia or even a cold.
I have a doe a lot like yours (for the Linear people, she was a "5" on strength) and although she's a good milker, genetically she should be making more than she is. She just can't fit enough feed in. She also has lung scarring from a round of shipping fever. If she had a wide, deep chest and therefore bigger lungs, it would not be a big deal. But she has the same narrow, shallow chest and so a continual cough and wheeze and a reluctance to move around.

[goatkid]

Are her herdmates Nubians, or a more aggressive breed like Alpines or La Manchas? I have mostly Nubians, so this isn't a problem for me, but a friend had to put her Nubians in a seperate pen so they will get their fair share of the feed. Some lines of Nubians mature more slowly than others. I have a doe who produces doelings who are more refined as young goats.They have no problems kidding. My friend has a 4 year old doe who is quite small and thin looking, and this goat has a healthy set of twins each spring. I'd just make sure she gets enough quality feed and wouldn't hesitate to breed your doe.

[chamoisee]

In my opinion, she looks OK and needs some maturing. I don't think she's actually thin, though her rumen may not have been full of hay at the time of the picture. Look at the pic where she is seen from the front- there is plenty of flesh over her backbone. Thin goats aren't like that, their spine sticks up and they don't have that glossy sleekness over the back like this doe does.

One thing I do see though, is that her rear legs are too straight- this is called "posty" and it affects their longevity. You will want to breed her to a buck that has a more correct angle to his rear legs.

Wait a minute- you aren't going to breed her? Why not? She looks healthy.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

In the grand scheme of things there isn't enough wrong with her to not breed her. Breed her to a buck with more strength, a better head, have someone teach you to trim feet better, and don't keep does dry this long.

She is posty in the rear because her toes are soo dang long she is rocking back on them! Hi Rebecca!!!!! Vicki

[Nancy_in_GA]

Thank you for all the information. I've been thinking about your replies a lot today.

This doe does seem to have enough flesh over her ribs. She gets alfalfa pellets, BOSS and hay, but prefers fresh browse. From what you describe she does have the slab sided conformation compared to our other nubians. So maybe, if she has a slightly reduced lung capacity, her body metabolism just keeps her a little on the thin side. Maybe she is better off a little thin in that case, anyway.

Yes we do have 5 Saanen wethers who try to bully everyone, but the other Nubians hold their own. We tried feeding this doe separately on two different occasions in the past. But then when we feed them altogether she stands back and won't join in. I'm afraid we will mess her up by tinkering around too much with the feeding arrangements. We do have a feed trough that can be arranged to easily segregate into 2 or 3 groups, so I think I'll try that.

Thanks for the heads up on hoof trimming. I do work on the toes, hardly ever trim heels, make the bottom parallel to the hair line, trim at least every other month. Maybe I'm not getting them flat enough across the bottom, or am leaving them too tall in general. I'll up the frequency of trimming on her, maybe try the belt sander.

Our situation may be different from most of you. We never had any intention of breeding our goats. We are simply trying to keep a fixed sized herd to maintain a balance for the amount of browse on our property, and it seems to be about right. I just wondered if this conformation would cause her any health problems in the future.

We have a 15 year plan. Keep these same goats healthy until the last one dies, hopefully of old age. I can't afford to add any more because they may outlive me, and I couldn't bear to sell any of them. And in the meantime just enjoy having such wonderful interesting animals in our lives. It's been worth every bit of the work so far.

And finally, I really can't believe that female goats are better off in the freezer than being dry and unbred. Except for this one doe, they act like very happy carefree goats who think they own the place. And I suspect even this little doe acts perkier when she knows we are not watching her.

Thanks,
Nancy

[chamoisee]

Man, I wish I could find more people like you....my partner thinks I am monstrous for ever butchering any buck kids (he says it is prejudiced against the males) or for that matter, does who don't meet my standards (for example, if they have an extra teat). I can't in good conscience sell them for "pets" or "weed control", because most people who want brush goats don't take very good care of them; but it's obvious that you do!

I think your doe will be fine. Conformation details like being slab sided aren't going to matter a lot in a dry doe (it is more important when we're looking at a dairy goat who needs to eat a lot in order to produce a lot of milk, and to have room for kids in her belly too).

[Rachel K.]

She is thin but she looks healthy.

[goatkid]

Even though I breed my does, I am not of the opinion that unbred does belong in the freezer. I sold a doeling as a pet this year. These neighbors have 2 doelings and haven't made up their minds as to whether or not they will breed them. I know they are treated well. At my place, wethers belong in the freezer. I don't have room for them, as my herd plan is to breed and sell goats. When I sell wethers, I'm delighted if they are kept as pets, so long as they are well cared for. Three years ago, I was given a Nubian - Alpine cross doe with 2 extra teats. She is out of some of the best bloodlines in the country. She is my best milker and all her kids so far have been born with correct mammary systems. She is a very dear goat and one of the family pets.

[lgslgs]

Originally Posted by Nancy_in_GA

We have a 15 year plan. Keep these same goats healthy until the last one dies, hopefully of old age. I can't afford to add any more because they may outlive me, and I couldn't bear to sell any of them. And in the meantime just enjoy having such wonderful interesting animals in our lives. It's been worth every bit of the work so far.

That is such a great way to raise goats. Ours are also here for life. So is our Lady Ox calf, Connie.

I couldn't imagine sending one of ours off to another home and not growing old with them.

Lynda

[Goat Freak]

We have it so that we sell the boys when they are a couple of months old, and SUPPOSIBLY we are SUPPOSED to sell some of our mutt girls, the babies that is. But other than that all of the animals that stay here for the first 6 months pretty much get to stay, breed if they are able, grow old and get put out to pasture till they get old and die.

[Doeseatoats]

I don't think she is so posty just not set up good. Can't really tell if she is narrow because you don't have a front view. Harvy Considine told me once to get more body on goats to feed warm mash of beet pulp. Keep her if it is a good milker for the family. I learned a long time ago I raise animals to my eye and make me happy. If she is slab sided to you and you have no special attachment trade or sell her. There are many more fishes in the sea and one may be your special tuna.

[Sweet Goats]

I don't raise dairy goats nor do I know anything about them. But I will say if there is something wrong with them I don't see it, I will say they look soooo much better then the dairy goats I have seen around here, (Colorado). I think tha is the one reason my daughter decided not to go with dairy is because they always lookd really thin and sick looking. I think Yours is beautiful.

[Nancy_in_GA]

Well I whacked her toes off down to the pink Monday. Will try weekly trimmings until I can shorten the hooves some overall, and see if that improves the legs. If that doesn't help I'll assume she has posty legs and that causes the toes to grow faster, rather than the other way around.

I really don't care much how our goats look, as long as it doesn't cause any serious health problems. We have a Nubian X Spanish wether (and his sister) that are probably the ugliest goats you have ever seen, but they have a lot of spunk, and seem to be the hardiest.

Besides, my mother (who is 84) would never let me sell one, even if I wanted to. She has fallen head-over-heals for these goats.

Nancy

[Rachel K.]

My Goats are pets also. I currently have a Wether and a Doe but I might also be adding two Pygmy Wethers, A Oberhasli Doe, and a Oberhasli Buckling to my herd. Wethers make wonderful pets and I love having them around. Does make nice pets as well. Even the Buck will be a pet for me.

All of my Goats stay with me till the end. However if I breed the Does then I will have to sell some of the kids much as I would like to keep all of them.