Baby Goat back to messy poops...what to do now?

Jillis · #1 12/27/05, 06:01 AM

About a week and a half ago I finished giving all the babies a course of Sulmet drenches due to the fact that about 4 of them were having diarrhea. It wasn't terrible diarrhea but any diarrhea is bad.

It seemed to clear everything up. Then a few days ago, I was watching a baby and she pooped normal. I was so happy! But a short while later, she had a human-looking poop with some normal nanny berries on the second part of it...now she alternates between the human looking poop and a little bit wetter stuff. She seems to be the only one with some dried poop drips on her back legs and butt.

Sorry for being so gross, but I am not sure what to do. I have been giving the babies a lot of cedar, which is new for them. Could that be causing this? Or should I dose with Sulmet again?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Blessings, Jillis!

Teacupliz · #2 12/27/05, 07:45 AM

A lot of people treat one does os Sulmet weekly. You may try that.
Liz

Jillis · #3 12/27/05, 09:23 AM

I guess I may have to...a few more have the dried poop on their back legs again. The same ones that always seem susceptible.
I am going to try giving apple cider vinegar in their water...but I don't know how much? I will post it as a separate thread and see who knows...

susanne · #4 12/27/05, 09:50 AM

how old are your kids and do you bottle feed them? what else do you feed them? you are only treating symptoms but you might have to change your management.

Goat Freak · #5 12/27/05, 10:03 AM

Sorry Jill, I only know how to treat the watery poop

. I will pray for your girls however, and for you. Good Luck, bye.

Jillis · #6 12/27/05, 10:04 AM

That's what I am wondering. They are between 8 and 6 weeks of age, the majority I think are about 7 weeks old. I am giving them lamb and kid milk replacer twice a day. They get hay and lamb & kid starter pellets free choice, and plenty of cedar branches to eat. I have a bucket of water out which is changed twice a day. I let them out to play for about an hour, supervised most days. Any suggestions would be welcomed!

Bluebutterfly · #7 12/27/05, 10:38 AM

My little Buckling LUCKY that got caught in the fire had that same stool issue.
We gave him a half of a tablet of immodium even when the stool wasn't watery. It was exactly like you said. It took 2 days to clear up into berries again. I only gave him a half of a tablet once a day. He loved the tablet.. chewed it up and everything. It didn't hurt him and now his stool has been good since.
Bluebutterfly

Teacupliz · #8 12/27/05, 10:44 AM

It may be the replacer. We never use them. We choice to use Whole Cows milk from the grocery store if we do not have goat milk. Less scouring. I treat for cocci prevently at 6-8- and 12 weeks. Then at weaning if that is not already. You may also try to just wean them now if they are eating hay and grain. Some wean at 8 wks.

Good Luck Liz

Bluebutterfly · #9 12/27/05, 11:07 AM

I forgot to add this but in August we were given another baby Boer. We started giving him the replacer and found that the replacer was giving him runs so when we switched him to Whole Cows milk.. after a few feedings of the cows milk his poop went back to normal. It is probably the replacer that is causing the soft stool. The replacer works for some babies but just not so well for others.
Bluebutterfly

susanne · #10 12/27/05, 11:24 AM

some milkreplacer are made with soymilk and could mean the death for kids.
do you have a cocci prevention for your kids? easiest is to put deccox-m in the milk. if you don't have goats milk it would be always better to feed store bought cows milk.

Jillis · #11 12/27/05, 12:37 PM

Well, I put them on raw, organic cow's milk when I got them. It was way too rich for them and gave them the runs big time. At $4.00 a gallon it was way to rich for me, and gave my wallet the runs...
So I switched them to whole cow's milk from the store. They had a little adjustment and were doing okay on that. Then the man I bought them from recommended that I put them on the replacer as it has all the nutrients they need, even some colostrum. His opinion of the cow's milk from the store was that it had the important nutrients stripped from it.
It is NOT soy protein, I checked. I don't use soy that is not fermented for anything.
They have been doing well on this until the diarrhea started up---but only about 4 of them get it, and it is not scours. The Sulmet cleared it up so I think it is bacterial and not dietary related.
I am in the process of weaning them. I wanted to wait until the youngest baby was at least 6 weeks and I ma now gradually diluting the milk replacer. For 2 gallons (twice a day!) I used to add 6 oz. of milk replacer powder per quart---eight 6-oz scoops. Now I add 7 scoops. In a few days, it will be 6 scoops, and so on...then I will go to one feeding a day...and so on...
The older ones don't even drink as much as the younger ones. They drop off the bucket (I have a 10 nipple milk bucket) and go to the grain and hay. Even the younger ones are drinking from the water bucket too.

The problem for me switching at this stage of the game is they are almost done. A $38.00 bag of milk replacer lasts me about a week now. The cheapest I can get cow's milk is about 2.80 a gallon. That's $78.40 a week!
If I really thought that was the problem I'd switch, but as I said, I think it must be bacterial. One of the babies already had this when I bought them. She is a little white Saanen and it was obvious she had some dried poop on her legs and butt.
I will put them on the Sulmet again, and then try the once a week dose. How long should I do that for? Don't they develop a resistance to cocci as they get older?
Thanks, thanks, thanks for answering all my questions!
Jillis!

Goat Freak · #12 12/27/05, 01:51 PM

BlueButterfly, glad to hear that Lucky is doing better! Are his burns doing better? Good Luck guys, i will be praying for all of ya. Bye.

Bluebutterfly · #13 12/27/05, 02:05 PM

Hi Goat freak,
Yup, He is acting as if nothing ever happened. His hair has even started to grow back on some spots of his head. The blood in the urine stopped the very next morning. The neighbor stopped by and was shocked that he was alive. He thought he was a goner. But anyway, Thanks for asking.

Jillis,
I hope everything works out. I wish I could help answer your questions. It is really lame being a newbie as I am.

Good luck.

Bluebutterfly

Goat Freak · #14 12/27/05, 02:17 PM

GLad to hear that Lucky is doing so good! Well see ya, bye.

moonspinner · #15 12/27/05, 04:51 PM

How long have the babies been on this last formula? Sometimes just replacing formulas will upset the digestive system in kids. And do you know they have cocci or just treating for it anyway? It may not be that at all. Or if it was/is cocci maybe they didn't get a strong enough dose. Sometimes they need something stronger than Sulmet to kick it out.

Jen H · #16 12/27/05, 05:03 PM

With more than one kid affected, and the problem recurring, I'd take a stool sample in and have it analyzed. Any vet can do this, it doesn't have to be a large animal vet. Once you actually know what's causing the problem you can treat it more effectively. It may indeed be cocci and they just need another dose of Sulmet, it may also be an entirely different problem that Sulmet won't even touch.

If you just introduced the cedar recently, I'd take that away until you get the stool problems under control.

Teacupliz · #17 12/27/05, 08:34 PM

I would just wean them and put the replacer in the freezer for next years kids. then mix it with whole cows milk from the grocery store===Liz

Jillis · #18 12/27/05, 09:18 PM

moonspinner, they have been on it for over 6 weeks---I am starting to wean them as described below.
I have a good large animal vet and I will take a sample to them for culture. I know that the Sulmet took care of it before. A week passed by and it came back. But I will get it cultured anyway, just to be sure.
I started them all on the Sulmet this afternoon. While we were in the barn, the same little white Saanen who had the symptoms when we bought her was acting like her back end wouldn't support her. My son and I were freaking out! She laid down and we patted her a bit. Then she got up and we realized she wasn't having a sudden bout of paralysis or anything---she was having tummy cramps. She stretched herself way out and stood that way while we gently massaged her tummy. She definitely was not bloated and her tummy was not hard or anything. We gave them the Sulmet and all of them, including her, seem perkier already. She was eating her hay and drinking her milk and etc.
Liz, what is your method for weaning? I really don't want to wean yet because some of them are only about 6 weeks old. So I am thinking about 2 more weeks of gradually more and more diluted milk replacer, down to one feeding to no feedings a day...also, why would you need to mix the milk replacer with cow milk? It has all the nutrients in it anyway. That seems like it would be quite costly, no?
But! Next year it will be my own goats who have the babies, not boughten babies, so they can have goat's milk! YAY!
Thanks, guys, for continuing to answer all my obsessive questions!

Blue Oak Ranch · #19 12/27/05, 09:29 PM

What it sounds like is happening is a transition problem.

The kids, at 6-8 weeks, should be consuming much more solid food (free-choice hay, not grain or starter!) than they would as kids.

Kids of this age are starting to depend more on their rumen, which is a big compost pile. Goats depend on bacteria to digest the solids they ingest. If they don't have the right bacteria, they can't "compost" as well and they get the runs.

You can try a method called "transfaunation." This is basically the best probiotics you can give them. This is basically populating the rumen (compost pile) with the right bacteria to break down food. This is done by either two methods - "stealing" a cud from an older goat, or by mashing up very fresh goat berries and putting them in the milk. You need good, HEALTHY, CLEAN older, ruminating goats for this to work.

To catch or steal a cud, put an older goat on a milk stand, wait for her to cud, and then pry open her mouth and grab the cud out. Let her go. Put the fresh cud down the throat of the younger goat, and hold the head up while stroking the throat until the kid swallows.

Transfaunation with goat berries involves waiting for an older, healthy, ruminating goat to poop. Scoop up the clean fresh poop berries (preferably on clean fresh bedding), and place in a ziploc bag. Put a few tablespoons of water in with them, and squish until they're liquidy. Pour this into their bottles with their milk and feed them at least once per day for as many days as it takes, usually three days. Use freshly collected berries for each feeding (the key bacteria doesn't live long outside the goat).

This worked wonders for my friend's kid - my vet recommended this, and is a practice used by many experienced breeders. It also works great for those kids transported long distances and aren't used to the bacteria in your environment.

Good luck, and cheers!

Katherine

Blue Oak Ranch

Jillis · #20 12/27/05, 09:40 PM

Oh my word! That sounds so freaky! Of course, I would do anything for my goats, even a "cud transplant"!

But all of them ARE eating tons of hay. The older ones are the ones who eat most of the grain. I have seen them chewing their cuds...do you think they need MORE cud, or more LIVE cud or something?

Augh! I keep finding out all these new things! Couldn't I just use the Probios you get at the farm store instead of trying to steal a goat's cud? What does a goat's cud look like? What does it feel like? How big is it? Is it like stealing a wad of gum or is it slooshier?

I don't

but I may need to do something before I could steal a cud from a goat...

Or...are you just yanking my chain? C'mon, please tell me you're just kidding...right?