Breeding question

tltater · #1 11/26/05, 01:05 PM

Hello all! I post ocasionally and lurk alot just reading and learning. I have 5 does(2 pygmies, 2 La Manchas, 1 Nubian) and 2 pygmy bucks. I have only had goats for about a year and I could never tell when they were in esterus. So, in order to breed them (and because of the colder months and not a proper shelter for my bucks yet) the bucks are running with the does. I have contact with them all the time....they are just outside my side door....so I can tell when they are in heat now due to the bucks. So, I know I have one pygmy doe due January 1st, and one La Mancha and the other pygmy doe due March 15th. Now, my other La Mancha went into heat again 2 weeks ago and today my Nubian went into heat again. My question is, are these guys just to short to get these two? My other La Mancha is about the same size so I don't see where the height could be a problem there, but my Nubian has some long legs and is taller. Is there anything I can do to "help"? There does both came to me already in milk last spring and the La Mancha was a first freshener but the Nubian has had twins and triplets for the last 3 years. So, any advice? These guys have been with them since the end of August.

Thanks for any help or advice!!!

Tracy
Southwestern, NY

**mygoat** · #2 11/26/05, 03:15 PM

I have some advice :

First, you should only run 1 buck in with the does, for three reasons. 1: when potential buyers come to look at them, you won't know who to tell them is the father. 2: There is a possiblility that if If two bucks ejaculate in a doe, and she gives birth to twins, one can be sired by one buck and the other could be sired from the other. The twins would only be half brother and sister! 3: If you keep a doe form this breeding, you won't know who is the father and won't know who to breed her to safely without inbreeding. Then you will have to take her to get bred on another farm somewhere when she goes into heat. If you want your does bred, pick one buck or split them up between the two.

In order to tell if you does are in heat, you can build a buck pen that shares a fenceline with the does. When one is in heat with a buck as a neibor, she will stand near to him, make lots of noise and he will try to reach her. That way you will always know, and you can just move the doe to the buck pen.

To breed a pygmy buck to a larger breed, take three sraw bales, place one on each side of the doe and then one behind her, so it extends behind her, like a runway. Teach your pygmy to jump onto the bale behind the doe, increasing his height. The bales to either side of the doe are to keep her from moving too much. Make sure she is in a standing heat. Your buck should then do what comes naturally......
Also, i don't know if you know this, but a pygmy buck crossed to a nubian doe will produce a breed called a Kinder, known for thier kidding ability (4 average, 6 not unheard of) and nice quantanties of high butterfat milk.

goatkid · #3 11/26/05, 03:58 PM

Have you watched your goats to see if the buck is able to breed them? If he isn't big enough the straw bale thing should work. Some goats continue to cycle one or more months after they are bred. Goat houses for bucks, especially small ones like pigmys are fairly easy to build with 2 by 4's and plywood.

moonspinner · #4 11/26/05, 05:27 PM

I like that idea of the three hay bales. I hand breed all my girls so never a doubt whose the daddy or any question of the due date.

Goat Freak · #5 11/26/05, 05:28 PM

Just wanted to point out that a father can breed with a daughter and the kids produced will have no problems, the only thing that you can not do is breed a brother to a sister or a half sister etc. I am ONLY going by what you are allowed to do and still register the babies though. By the way, I agree with mygoat, you would not be able to tell who the father of the babies are, so I don't think that running both boys with all the girls is a good idea, we seperate ours into 3 herds, only because 1 is a seperate kind. Good Luck, bye.

**mygoat** · #6 11/26/05, 10:01 PM

you can breed daughter to father, but only if you understand what you are doing. It can create very good characteristics, but it can magnify faults.

Goat Freak · #7 11/27/05, 01:07 PM

Well yeah, you would HAVE to know what you are doing or like you said you could end up making a baby that has increased faults, but if you do it right, or get lucky, you can have a baby that has increased good qualities.

tltater · #8 11/27/05, 01:32 PM

Thanks for all the help! Yes, I know the bucks in with the does was a bad thing but I didn't have much of a choice this year and I want/need the milk. Yes, I milk my pygmies and my dh likes their milk the best. I am also interested in finding out if I would like the kinder goats or not. We already have a fence just about finished where the bucks and does will be seperated but only by the fence line so next year we will be able to tell and have "dates" so we know exactly who is breeding to who. If they go into heat again, I will definately try the straw bales. I have seen my one buck breed with the nubian, throw his head back but she didn't arch her back. I have seen the La Manchas do the back arch thing though. I will be keeping and eye on the one La Mancha in March to be sure she didn't get bred then. I didn't realize they could go into heat one more time after being successfuly bred.

Thanks again,
Tracy

chma4 · #9 11/27/05, 01:56 PM

BY THE WAY, the answer is YES, a lil buck can breed big does. I like to do it that way, no birthing troubles. My nigerian buck, when he was only 6 months old, bred 6 full size alpines on the first go round. I have found bucks to be EXTREMELY agile when it comes to finding ways to mate!!!

chma4 · #10 11/27/05, 01:58 PM

By the way....no hay bales needed, just the bucks ingenuity!